Jeff said:
[The other thing that has a huge impact on crowd quality is admission. Cheap season passes are a bad idea, plain and simple. Kids aren't going to spend a lot of money to hang around and cause trouble. $100+ season passes show the way. That's a lot of money for a baby sitting service.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com"
Jeff you and other posters hit it on the head with this one statement. Unfortunately the price of season passes goes up every year at SFGADV. Yet the park insists on passing out free tickets to every youth group in inner city NY and Philly. They bus them in to the tune of 20 or 30 busses a day. These kids have no adult supervision whatsoever they run rampant through the park and do whatever they want. I have personally seen them terrorize ride ops, security and rebel against any form of control.
Stop the free passes and like SFGA get the price of a one day ticket over $60.00 and get the price of a season pass up some of the problems will stop. Unfortunately I know several people who purchase family season passes and would do so no matter what the price so that they can drop their kids off or give them bus fare in the morning and then pick them up in the evening while they are working. Again not supervised they do what they want and walk away. There is no easy solution.
The park calls the free tickets a "Service to the under-privileged." We that call the park home call it stupidity again given the high price of food and merchandise in the park even these "under-privileged" people still spend on the average of about $50.00 per visit on food and merchandise. It's all about money. Six Flags will do whatever it takes to bring the bucks into the park.
BTW if you think the vandalism is bad at Great Adventure check out Hurricane Harbor when it opens. It's been open only a year and last August it was trashed.
*** This post was edited by robbie on 4/11/2001. ***
Intamin Fan said:
"Great Adventure a little over 2 hours from Washington or Baltimore? In someones dreams. If you live in northern Maryland near the Delaware border it might be possible, but otherwise it's usually taken me 3 hours or more from around Batlimore City. Add another half-an-hour from DC."
Ok so it's about 3 hours give or take. The point of the post was to show the location of the park to the local population centers. I do beleive that if you look at the size of these cities you will find SFGADV smack dab in about the middle of at least three of the countries largest cities.
Bubala and Rickyswmn and I feel the same way. WHY does there always have to be a certain type of person out there who just can't enjoy something beautiful...like NITRO? Went there Saturday and again Monday and was saddened on Mon. to see where someone wrote on the fusia hand rail in Bold Black Permanent Marker something about how cool Nitro is (tell people, don't vandalize the ride expressing your opinion!). Now it's scarred and the gum's being stuck on the walls already. What is the point of doing this? You're obviously in the park because you LIKE being there, so WHY VANDALIZE IT? I think if you get caught, you should have to clean it and then turn in your passes or somehow be banned for the rest of the season! Keep gum and markers off NITRO damn it!
Ok, I think this is one of the best thrill ride parks I have ever been to. (I only live 45min away so of course I would think that.) However, the parks biggest problem is the crowds. The type of people that are ruining the park are probably not on this board so I shouldn't offend anybody. It seems that Gadv is a place to drop off your kids and forget about them. The person that mentioned gangs in this thread hit the bulls eye. If I had young kids, I would be very uncomfortable taking them to this park. It is very rough around the edges. (city like) The only part I don't understand is that parks like CP, Hershey and even Disney must have the same problem. They somehow seem to take care of it behind the scenes. I know it mostly has to do with location but it is still possible to sacrifice some passes and patrons to bring in the people that are there to really enjoy themselves. I have actually felt threatened while in line for rides. These kids aren't making the park very much money and if they stepped up their security and did some more ejecting, maybe it would get better. This would also help the graffiti in the line cues, the disgusting bathrooms and food areas, and the overall feel. Perhaps they cater a bit too much to the babysitting idea (including young adults that do not seem to have anything else better to do). They could also stand to loose some of the crappy concrete (and tar) throughout the park and replace it with nicer pathways like other parks have. The landscaping and sidewalk areas look like trash. (I've heard it is better this year) Overall, it seems to be changing for the better and they have one of the best assortments of rides around (including rolling thunder!). If they stopped the hanging out problem and cleaned up the park there would be nothing to complain about. Still, compared to 10 or 15 years ago, it is a major improvement. just my 2cents
btw, while were on the subject of SFGadv, does or has anybody seen a map for this season? I know it is off the topic of this thread but I hate being the one to start new ones. (there are already so many!) I'm still debating on getting a SP this year partly because of comments I posted above. I stopped getting them a couple years ago out of pure frustration with the people that go there. Maybe if I see a map it will talk me into it!
Okay, after hearing all of these horror stories of Great Adventue, how does it compare to Six Flags America?
Someone once told me that SFAm was a pretty "rough" place too with its proximity to D.C. and Baltimore.
I was at the park Sunday early afternoon. Just walked down by the exit to Nitro at that point to check it out. While there I observed no less than 20 kids come down the exit and jump the rails back to the que. There were people walking down the que line that didn't say a word and there was no security in site.
Today at the media event I too saw the vandalism that had already been done and both my wife and I just shook our heads in disgust. The PR person asked us what was wrong and we told her about the vandalism of this new attraction after only a few days of operation. She agreed it was a huge problem for the park but didn't offer any hope that there were plans to get it under control.
Perhaps this parks biggest problem is complacency. Could the park manager and staff actually be so secure in their positions that they actually don't care any more? If so perhaps an e-mail campaign to the corporate offices might get a little relief. It is worth a try this is a fine park with some big problems.
SF Great Adventure is really trying to fix itself up which is really good to see. Within 3 years, they have put 2 WORLD CLASS COASTERS and a WATER PARK. And now I'm hearing rumors of a FLYING DUTCHMAN for 2002? Their future is looking bright. What really kills SF Great Adventure is its crowds. It is located directly between 2 major cities (New York and Philadelphia). Especially on a Saturday in July, you have a better chance on park in your driveway and walking then getting a parking space there. But if Great Adventure keeps it up, they will be an amazing theme park.
robbie said:
Stop the free passes and like SFGA get the price of a one day ticket over $60.00 and get the price of a season pass up some of the problems will stop. Unfortunately I know several people who purchase family season passes and would do so no matter what the price so that they can drop their kids off or give them bus fare in the morning and then pick them up in the evening while they are working. Again not supervised they do what they want and walk away. There is no easy solution.
I agree that the free passes should be stopped. I can see giving free passes to a group who does a whole bunch of community service or something, but not just inner city kids. As for them raising their one day pass, I don't think that's a good idea since it is almost 50 bucks already and is really out of line compared with the rest of the industry as it is. I think charging more for a season pass would help, but not solve the problem completely. Location has alot to do with it and when there are that many people in an area, there are bound to be a lot of bad ones. The best thing they can do is try to reduce the number of places that can be easily vandalized and also keep the lines moving.
-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
KoasterSlayer:
I disagree on one point. Adding 2 world class coasers in 3 years is not a fix up operation. These coasters were added for one purpose to get more people to come to the park.
Parks that are fixing up are the parks that didn't add any major attractions this year. Great Escape got the Chineese Acrobats show but no major attraction. Six Flags wants to brand this park next year so they say now. I think SFNE also is just in a fix up mode this year.
Yes SFGADV is definitely fixing up the park but at the same time by adding the new major thrill rides is actually contributing to the problems the park has by increasing the size of the crowds. SFGADV attracted the attention of ACE last year and I beleive it was stated at the time this was the first time ACE ever held an event at this park. It was a feather in thier cap and a huge PR boon.
You are right when you say that sometimes it's better to take the bus than try to park. NJ transit does indeed run regular bus service during the season to SFGADV now. The reality of the situation there is the crowds are never going to go away. The park needs to get the crowds at least a portion of them and the figure of 2% seems to be the rule of thumb under control. What does that mean for the other 98%?
1. Does anyone like the metal detectors? They were installed because someone actually brought a gun into the park and shot someone at the gate.
2. Bring back the security guards in the lifeguard chairs in all que lines. We didn't like it when they were there the last time but when they were there the que lines were under control and line cutting was kept to a minimum.
3. Make security visible through the park ok but then people will again start to complain because the SF gestapo is out looking for trouble and of course anyone they talk to will say "I didn't do anything why are you messing (insert your own expleitve deleted here) with me?"
We can't have it both ways when we felt safe in the park security was visible and tough. When they disappeared and got lax we now feel unsafe. Which way do we want it we can't have it both ways.
*** This post was edited by robbie on 4/11/2001. ***
This has gotten me frustrated and I'm not even at the park! Does anybody know an e-mail address for Six Flags? I checked out the main site and Gadv's site and couldn't find one anywhere. That is a little pathetic these days! Perhaps they could give us an explanation as to why the "real" guest they are trying to cater are threatened by these immature obnoxious kids. Could you imagine seeing gum or writing in a line cue at BGW or Hershey Park? Even if there was, they would remove it instantly and catch the person who did it!
Ok gang here is a address you can use to send e-mail to the park. You need all of it including the brackets. Be nice we don't really want to make them angry just express your concerns as nicely as possible and perhaps you will get an answer.
Six Flags Great Adventure [R-5-725272-660574-2-62099-US2-69341A47@xmr3.com]
*** This post was edited by robbie on 4/11/2001. ***
Ok er'body is acting like Great Adventure is the mecca for gangster activity....what a fallacy! I see the same thing when I go to Kings Island or Canada's Wonderland. I guess because I am from the inner city I'm desensitized to urban youth. but still the park is really not that bad.
First of the crowded line just goes to show how good great adv. really is. Face it there aren't many parks with 12 coaster and 14 coaster tracks. All theme parks are near major cities thats the way they plan it. SFMM is near Sacremento , L.A, and San Francisco. THere going to be getting a new woodie and a flying dutchman coaster next year so whats this about not good enough rides. THis place has more ride than any other park on earth with a total of 71 as of this year. The park vandilism is normal. I've been to tons of six flags parks and its all the same. This year boardwalk was redone and i've seen it with my own to eyes. This park has improved alot this year . They've also installed fast lane so you can skip those long lines. This park ranks omong one of the top five in the country and has only got better each year significantly. Since 1993 7 world class coaster s have been installed and over 33 new spin' n 'spew attraction. With Nitro this year witch i have ridden and easily rate the best coaster i've ever beeen on which is everything i think this is one of the best parks out there. Everyone else shuns it cause they don't have a park this good near them. This park as all the same problems every park faces and now that premier owns it is by far 10x better than it used to be.
Ive only been to sfgadv a couple times and i always went on days were no one was there so i had a great time and couldnt wait to get my season pass this year but now with all this talk of vandels and out of control teens im not so sure.
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*SFGADV*
1.Batman:The Ride
2.Medusa
3.The Chiller
(Nitro can't wait)
Antuan...I don't think the park is thattttttt bad either BUT why does it have to be bad at all? We have basically a great park and we, meaning the general public, are for the most part the ones who mess it up and we shouldn't! We should monitor ourselves. What difference does it make whether you're from the inner city or the boonies! What does that have to do with anything?? Example...I ate barbecue ribs near Nitro the other day. This family of four also ate, made a HUGE mess, then just walked away without tossing their trash out. This is our park...INCLUDING THEM...why couldn't they take their cr** and toss it out...the trash-can wasn't even a foot from their table. I can't understand why anyone would want to make something that's nice, a dump!
What I *REALLY* wonder is why all the "bad kids" and "gangsta teens" are thought to reside in the inner cities? I, like Antuan, am an inner city kid and from my experience with SFGAm, most of the rowdy teens were from "suburbia" but wanted to act "hard". Believe me, most "inner city" kids DONT have season passes. It's the middle class kids who's parents buy these things. And for the middle class crowd, even paying 200 bucks for a whole summer wouldnt be a bad thing. For a comparison, look at the crowds at PKD & SFA, they are virtually identical behavior wise and the PKD passes are $25 dollars more. I'm sorry but if parents are really using the passes for "babysitting" I dont think a 100 buck pass is going to stop much.
Someone asked why Hershey, BGW and Disney dont have that problem. Two reasons: 1) location. Those three parks are really out of the way for a majority of folks. In the case of Hershey and BGW they are really not a 30min drive away from any HUGE area. And with Disney (FL), there are like 7 parks that dilute the local crowds. 2) Appeal. Now maybe Six Flags can be blamed for this but I choose to praise them. There parks have an appeal to the "middle" generations. BGW, while a beautiful park, only has a limited assortment of thrill rides. And anyone who thinks of DisneyLand automatically thinks of kiddie rides. Therefore, the more "exciteable" folks tend towards the SF's and Paramount's.
As for turning parks into dumps, that comes from poor home training, plain and simple. I dont care if that home is in Section 8 housing or a beautiful lakeside mansion. If you were never taught to clean up after yourself, thought that YOU clean up YOUR mess, if you werent taught to leave things BETTER than the way you found them, you simply WONT CARE what happens. I dont like it, I dont condone it, but I also dont blame parks for it. I have yet to see a thrill park where this wasnt a problem. YOu know what, I'M DONE WITH THIS TOPIC.
jeremy
no the coasters may not be smooth and the people rude but thats the people who visits fault don't take it out on the park an d medusa, GASM, CHILLER,BATMAN, and NITRO will be on discovery channel shows cause i have tapes from the last 10 years trust me i know what i'm talk'in about. If you had bad experience maybe you should go to family park because i'm sorry but great adventure is not a family park and is there for sheer thrills for trhose who relly want them.
I think the most important thing we got out of this is that we love this park and while it could be better, this isn't going to keep us away. Letting them know nicely is a good thing. Especially from so many people. On the inner city thing, I work in the city and spend most of my time there (Philly) and I love the people here. I was perhaps stereotyping earlier and I apologize if that is how I came across. Rest assured, nobody on this board is going to destroy property or leave their trash anywhere!
SfGaDvFreak said:
Ive only been to sfgadv a couple times and i always went on days were no one was there
so i had a great time and couldnt wait to get my season pass this year but now with all
this talk of vandels and out of control teens im not so sure.
Don't base your decision on what you hear in here. Believe it or not I heard all this kind of stuff on different forums last year when I was planning my first trip to cedar point and that place rocks. There are places on the raptor and magnum que's that have loads of gum on them. The restrooms could be a lot cleaner. If you go to big parks on the weekends in the summer there are gonna be lines. Be it cp or grtadv or mm. These are the things that happen. I can't see where this place is unbearable to the point where I wouldn't go.
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"One good thing about all this, with all this fresh air were gonna sleep like babies"
