Is Knoebel's a Snoozefest?

Gonch, I can see where some might not like it. Phoenix is fun to me but not top ten by any means IMHO, The Twister actually suprised me last visit compared to my first but it's still not top ten.

I just take the park for what it is, I kinda consider it kennywoodish meaning do it at your own leisure. The skooters are and Flying Scooters are insane IMHO and they have a nice selection of rides and atmosphere.

Sometimes I have fun at places you wouldn't think you can and its sometimes just pure luck of time visited, Who I was with, How crowded or just some memorable stuff going on durring the day that makes a Park fun to me.

Chuck, who even had a ball at Dutch Wonderland, A park that for all intensive purposes is a Kiddy park.

Why would kennywood build anything classic now. Its not CLASSIC IF ITS BUILT NOW! Think about it? And Im saying Kennywood isnt like a Six Flags or Cedar Point with the high tech steel stuff. And where they gonna put a new wooden coaster? Oh yeah thats right, we can expect one in the next few years. Kennywood IS classic b/c it HAS classic rides. Knoebels sucks because they try to stay classic even though its an oxymoron b/c if its new, then its not classic. Youre saying if Kennywood built a new wooden, its a "classic ride"? So i guess the Voyage at Holiday World is a classic woodie and should be on the ACE Coaster Classic list. I get it. Nice comparison of Kennywood to a house with plasma TVs too. Yeah they have some new "plasma TVs" but they also have the "old sewing machines" and "100 year old vases." Kennywood's classic rides are better than Knoebel's, they have more of them, they have more one-of-a kind rides AND accept embrace what the modern industry has to offer, just in moderation and at a resonable pace. Thanks, but anyone who says Kennywood isnt better than Knoebel's hasnt been to Kennywood, at least IMO. Sorry if offended anyone. *** Edited 4/27/2006 11:11:50 PM UTC by Coastin Reimer*** *** Edited 4/27/2006 11:12:56 PM UTC by Coastin Reimer***

Peabody's right about Kennywood making that giant step towards becoming a "hybred" tradional park. As much as I love Kennywood, it has slowly become modernized with high tech rides. Way more than Knoebels is anyways. Kennywood is awesome, but Knoebels is in a league all its own.

I think if Knoebel's could modernize a little, it would. But they cant, so they decide to hide it and say thats what theyre shooting for. And now, it really IS what theyre shooting for b/c they have no choice.

Also, IMO, Dick Knoebel is one of the biggest tools in the industry because of his comment when unveiling "Twister." He said, "This is it, I feel like were at the front of it now!" I realize he's excited about a new ride, as any owner would be, but cmon, can you be any less accurate or sound any more like a dork. Knoebel's will never be at the front of it. Kennywood was entitled to that with Steel Phantom, Cedar Point was with Magnum or MF, even Holiday World this year with The Voyage. All of these are GREAT rides, and while Twister is a GOOD ride, it certainly didnt put Knoebels at the "front of it." Why? well for one, the ride itself isnt GREAT, its very good, and also, look at Knoebel's...the rest of the park will never be enough for one new ride or coaster to push it "to the front of it." *** Edited 4/27/2006 11:34:22 PM UTC by Coastin Reimer***

^Total speculation.

Its fine to have your own negative opinion about a park but just making up stuff based on nothing to back it up seems a little silly.

And anyway, since when did

Kennywood is better than Knoebels = Knoebels sucks? *** Edited 4/27/2006 11:36:10 PM UTC by matt.***

Total Speculation? Yes, but accurate. Could Knoebel's EVER afford a steel hypercoaster? Never. They dont even charge admission (which is not a bad thing if your goal is to be like Knoebel's is now). But cmon, seriously, lets not kid ourselves, Knoebel's simply CANT become like Kennywood.

My argument IS NOT Kennywood is better than Knoebel's....my argument is Knoebel's is a snoozefest. Im simply building an argument from example and an argument from authority, citing Kennywood as both an example and an authority about what a good traditional park should be. Do I happen to think Kennywood is better, I think its obvious, and sure, by all means, that is something you should certainly take from my argument, but my argument is that Knoebel's is a snoozefest. Thats my MAIN POINT. *** Edited 4/27/2006 11:40:01 PM UTC by Coastin Reimer***

Maybe Knoebels doesn't have any interest in becoming like Kennywood.

Not that you have access to Kennywood's or Knoebel's financial books or anything...

Chuck, I dug DW as well. It was a great little park too.

If I had to explain, I probably coudn't put my finger on it. For whatever reason the experience there just didn't wow me.

If I was ever doing a trip and heading down I-80, I'd probably fit a stop in, but I wouldnt go out of my way to get there again. Purely middle of the road.

We generally do the park thing as a family. The thing that strikes me as odd now that I think about it is occasionally someone will say, "Remember that time at such and such a park?" or, "When are we going back to (Park X)" - but no one has ever brought up Knoebel's in any context.

I guess in the end it was just forgettable. Nothing there was particularly exceptional on our visit. The rides, the food, the people, whatever...none of it was bad. It just wasn't memorable in any way for us.

It's not even a case of preference. New vs old. Traditional vs modern. Urban vs rural. Whatever. We just tend to like parks. It's not about ride, it's not about food or whatever.

Like I said, I can't put my finger on it and it was 'bad', it just wasn't anything exceptional to us.

(There's probably one or two other perennial favorites that I could say the same for, but won't...yet. :) )

And I'd also like to point out that a day at almost any park is better than a day not at the park. We've only had a truly bad, never-go-there-again time at two of the 72 parks we've ever visted.

EDIT - also want to point out that I'd appreciate if I didn't get lumped in with Coaster Reimer as I have no agenda, nor want to make Park A vs Park B comparisons. Just pointing out that in the grand scheme of things it is possible for some to not really care about Knoebel's. :)

*** Edited 4/27/2006 11:44:08 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Lets be real here, I dont have to have access to Kennywoods or Knoebels books to tell ya who is ABLE to afford modernized rides and who isnt. Please. A park with no admission price vs one with admission price. Also, what other parks does Knoebel's own? Kennwood owns sandcastle, idlewild, and Lake Compounce also...all of which charge admission. Not to mention how much more Kennywood and all of its sister parks have to offer to guests and how many more opportunities Kennywood's guests have to spend money at the park as oppose to Knoebel's guests. So please, its not even worth trying to argue that Knoebel's may possibly be equal to Kennywood financially.

EDIT: Gonch, i appreciate your points of view here, but please, my goal wasnt to have a Park A vs Park B comparison thread. My arguemnt is that Knoebel's is a snoozefest, and im citing Kennywood as an example and an authority as to what a traditional and classic park should be. *** Edited 4/27/2006 11:46:24 PM UTC by Coastin Reimer***

Ever consider Knoebels is happy and likes their own niche? They arenothing like Kennywood, which is a corporation!

I didn't say they were equal financially.

Listen, you like Kennywood more than Knoebels, that's fine. But take a look at what Gonch is saying here. He's not trying to claim that the owner of the park is a tool, for whatever reason, and he's not trying to claim he doesn't like the park because of some sort of over-played-traditional-park-card you seem to think is out there.

He's fine with saying that what the park offers doesn't appeal to him, and leaves it at that, without making wild speculations about the parks' ability to buy large steel coasters, or the motivations of Knoebel's managers, which really, you have no way of truly knowing what they are.

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Coastin Reimer said:

Kennywood as an example and an authority as to what a traditional and classic park should be. *** Edited

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What gives you the authority to say what a park "should be". You like Kennywood, we get it. So do most of us! But to outright say that Dick Kinsel is Tool and say it's a snoozefest is just lame. For how to make a compelling argument based on your opinion see Lord Gonchar's original post.

Which is also why things can be interpreted as 'trolling' vs fostering some fun debate-style conversation.

I didnt say I WAS THE AUTHORITY. Kennywood is. As the maker of the argument, I have the RIGHT to choose who I cite as examples and authorities.

What makes them the authority? That makes no sense. They are one example of an angle a traditional park can take...that's all. *** Edited 4/27/2006 11:54:29 PM UTC by Peabody***

Yeah, but even still. How exactly does they way KW does business have anything to do with the way Knoebels should?

Kennywood is not an authority on the business of Knoebels.

Maybe Knoebels is the authority and KW should do things their way?

*** Edited 4/27/2006 11:56:36 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

No offense Gonch because I do respect you're explanation of why you don't "get it" (remember that Dorney thread from long ago?) about Knoebels. But if you've only been there once, maybe you should go back and give it another try. If you like Indiana Beach and Kennywood (two more of my personal favorites), I'm not getting why you wouldn't enjoy Knoebels just as much unless it's way too laid back.

And lose money?

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Lord Gonchar said:
Which is also why things can be interpreted as 'trolling'

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Personally, I see trolling when someone shows up, and makes posts for the sole purpose of illiciting a negative or inflammatory response.

The first post in this thread, coming into a forum which clearly has a very very favorable opinion of Knoebels and saying negative things about the park with no explanation is certainly borderline trolling, imo, but I guess there is some redemption in showing up later and actually explaining what was meant, no matter how off-base that explanation is.