Is it possible? I have always wondered.

^Totally with you there Chuck.

The old Intamins/Antons 'ride' wild, like a woodie should. Mindbender and Shockwave feel like well maintained woodies, with loops of course.

B&M's are way too over engineered, depending on what seat you are in. Mantis' (you could find 100 other examples as well) first drop is banked to the right, then slightly to the left. I mean, come on!

As for woodies, for the life of me, I cannot wonder what John Pierce was thinking half the time (sorry). And sometimes, Bill Cobb as well.

But then of course, we could bring up Ron Toomer. I have huge respect and love them all, worshipped them as a kid... But when some of those coasters were built, you could just see things were very very NOT RIGHT. (Rattler, Twister2, Shockwave/GASM, Drachen).

Pierce's biggest mess up was Rattler, originally designed correctly then they change the plans durring construction to go for the record without leaving enough pull out after the drop. The second problem with that coaster was hiring RCCA which again was duplicated with SOB.

Mean Streaks another one (Record where instead of doing all the modifications they did, To keep a already beaten record they didn't shorten the first drop. It still however like much smaller Dinns and early CCI's needed much more reinforcement in the structure than it was built with. (Look at all the booster bents on that thing)

To me, Big Dipper at Geauga had one of the biggest out of control ride feelings of any *SIZE'D) coaster out there, Thats what made it fun, Worth riding and wanting you to go back, NOT A RECORD!

Chuck, agreeing, Some of the antons like Tiggr are just nuts at times :)

At first I wasn't too crazy about the idea...but then I started thinking, "Man, it'd nice to have a stomach-altering double dip on Beast' straightaway, (the section with the overhang before the second tunnel).

SOB?! After riding it 2-3 times this season with the new trains and such I came to a conclusion...I really don't care about SOB! And there's really not much they could do to make that ride fun or exciting for me.

^Funny all this is so obvious to us, even when they were building these 'behemoths'.

Look at any coaster poll... Mitch's wood coaster poll for example. So many CCI coasters were top 10. Now some of em are in the 90's or even lower. Those rides just couldn't be maintained by 'average parks'. Besides Holidayworld, who has kept up their CCI coaster?

Agreed, Chuck. Big Dipper was a blast. It did have rough seat and rough *years* but the design was simple and I think that was one of the few coasters that there was lift on every hill when running well.

It always had the longest line. Little Dipper at Kiddieland is more fun than many of the big woodies. No joke! The Beastie (isn't it fairly odd looking paint job or something like that now?) had more lift than the Beast had on a 'good day'.

I haven't been to Mt. Olympus in 2 years, I wonder how Hades is holding up? Cyclops, in my book, was a top 10 easy. But Zeus seemed very under cared for. It's a big ride. Big rides take special care.

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Vater said:

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J7G3 said:
[...]a good woodie usually does have 'lateral g's'.

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Precisely. Lateral Gs are primarily why good wooden coasters feel 'out of control'. I love the newer twisters with the highly-banked turns, but I sometimes find they don't feel as out of control as they look like they should. Dorney's Thunderhawk is my #1 (c'mon, stop laughing), and a lot of that has to do with the wild laterals (and simultaneous air) during the reprofiled turnaround. The brilliance of Schmeck's designs is in their simplicity, and the absolutely crazy forces exterted on you as you ride, yet never to the point of inflicting pain. Schmeck coasters to me are some of the most reridable coasters around.

I haven't been on Beast since 2000, so I don't know if it's been tamed further, but I loved it then. I'd be irritated if it was reprofiled, especially the helix finale. The laterals in that thing make the ride for me.

As for SoB...sure, reprofile it. Hell, rebuild it. Redesign it. Return the loop. ReTAER IT DOWN. I don't care.

*** Edited 12/14/2007 11:17:11 PM UTC by Vater***

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I agree with you two 100% I couldnt have said it better,

So wait...you originally said you thought Beast could use a reprofiling...right? Too many 'harsh lateral Gs'?

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J7G3 said:
Besides Holiday World, who has kept up their CCI coaster?

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The only other park I can think of is Indiana Beach with Cornball Express, which is my 3rd favorite woodie. I'm sure that Hoosier Hurricane is well maintained too, but I have always found it to be boring, so it doesn't really count for me. lol. SCoSM was already very intense, so I don't really notice its roughness...

Come to think of it, why does Indiana seem to care so much more about their wooden coasters than other states?

^well! Yes, Hurricane unfortunately, never had a lot of lift. But it's well maintained and FAST!!! Cornball is a true prize! Total top 10 material!!!

LoCoSuMo is much smoother than it used to be. Give it another chance! Indiana Beach is just the best....anyone remember the old "Twister!!!?" man, talk about breathing problems!

Tig'ger, in my book, is hard to beat. No restraints, and a damn good ride!

As far as Steel Hawg??? Well, I hope it's good. But I longed for an old Anton/Intamin/Werner (which is it!!!???) shuttle loop.... man... think about that!

Besides Holiday World, who has kept up their CCI coaster?

Silverwood. In fact the man responsible is Jeff Hammersley, who originally kept Raven & Legend in shape.

Using Beast as an example:

Banking certain turns more, say, like the second right turn after the tunnel would allow them to lighten up on the breaking system. Not to totally remove the latterals but enough to allow it to run faster through the course.

That would be the only thing I would want to happen aside from new trains with better seating on that coaster. Anything more and it would no longer be the Beast.

You can't do that on Beast with the trains is currently has.
Chuck