Is it possible? I have always wondered.

Thursday, December 13, 2007 2:03 PM
I am mainly thinking about Kings Island here but it could apply to any park with wood coasters.

The question (sorry if its a dumb one!!):
Is it possible to make track changes to enhance the experience on both Son of Beast and Beast. Couldnt they change the banking on both to lesson the harsh lateral G's sustained throughout the ride or maybe add a few airtime hills. I think both coasters could use an update and could possibly become great coasters. It seems like some wood coasters are so close to being a really good ride. Mean Streak is another example. So impressive to look at but lacking a little something.

What other elements or changes do you all think could fix these wooden giants?

How hard or expensive would it be to do such a thing?

What other wood coasters could use a few changes to become excellent rides?

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 2:20 PM
I've heard of reprofiles to make rides more "comfortable" or "safe", but to enhance the ride experience??? I'd love a go on one before and after! IIRC the Colossus at SFMM was a reprofile for safety/comfort - http://www.rcdb.com/id26.htm. I'd love a reprofile of Rolling Thunder at SFGAdv but then again that would be cost prohibitive. For the most part, I'd like to see a re-fit of restraints for certain coasters rather than reprofiling the track. Get rid of those hideous orange lap bars (thigh bashers) from the classic out and backs and put the single position bars back. Re-fit all those that must use better restraints than single position bars with something more like what is found on coasters like Thunderhead at Dollywood.
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Thursday, December 13, 2007 2:41 PM
They did it with Mr. Twister but that was over 40 years ago.
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Thursday, December 13, 2007 2:51 PM
Beast could use a couple airtime hills where the old midcourse was to scrub off some speed instead of a hundred feet of straight track and a brake.

It's always possible with a wooden coaster but these parks operate if there isn't no markatability in bettering something, They don't do it.

Chuck, who says unless it's so bad like in FOF's case they have too.

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:50 PM
I think it would be hugely markatible to enhance the Beast. Imagine that setting and that ride with some overbanked turns and a few air hills added. OMG I am getting excited thinking about it. With todays technology why shouldnt we improve these rides that seem to get criticized so much. Adding something new is better than tearing down and wasting like people think should be done with SOB and MS. What about Mean Streak with better banking and a double down added. OMG how freaking awesome would that be. These rides could be sweet just by reprofiling a few sections.
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Thursday, December 13, 2007 4:54 PM
SOB being that tall, is always gonna be nothing but a problem. John Allen said it best, a wooden coaster over 100, and your just asking for problems.

The Beast, as it is, is a wooden mine ride, at best. It is pretty much a yawn of a ride. SOB hurt me like no other coaster ever, I had not only a headache but a backache too!

Geez, manofthechurch, I sound like you in my 'Revolution Love' thread don't I!?

See my point now!? Most 'once great' coasters can have something done to make them better.

The Beast, as is, is still very popular but really just a yawn. There is ALOT of potential there. Just like with Revo :)

The Beast has been painful, but a good woodie usually does have 'lateral g's'. It's just how you do it, what trains are you using. Lateral G's on Thunderbolt and Coney Cyclone are a blast!

I 'could' happen. You never know! I mean, who wouldda ever thought a line of coasters (Premier shuttles) would go from harnesses to lap bars... it happened and people are noticing that (Phantom's Revence, Vekoma...)

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 5:01 PM
Virtually everything both you said is wrong, Try again :)

Premier shuttles were actually originally desinged to be LAPBARS but the parks felt people would not feel safe. What a mistake that was. Believe it or not, Beast used to have two decent airtime spots, The first and second drops when it was a four bench train. Beast is not boring, Lacking the quick fire elements of many of todays coasters but always fun at night.

Chuck

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 5:38 PM
^Exactly, there is something about whipping through the woods in the dead of night. Bonus points if there is a chill in the air (like there is in October.)
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Thursday, December 13, 2007 5:45 PM
One of my greatest rides on Beast was it's 25th anniversarry, Friday the 13th 2004 We rode it early on and then again about 10pm. Well like Paramount all the lights were on but the leaves were not on the trees yet and fog had filled the woods (Which won't happen with leaves) Eerie and mystical.

Chuck, who says it wasn't a light braked ride or exceptional in no other means than that and the fact that it was almost 25 years to the hour after my first ride on it April 13, 1979 Under a full moon BTW :) *** Edited 12/13/2007 10:46:44 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:44 PM
^I forgot about all those flood lights out there! It was like "what the heck?" People like to sue, I know...

Now you want some dark rides, try Holidayworld :)

Years ago, some parks were known to 'turn down or turn off' the brakes when coaster enthusiasts were there. I really don't think it happens anymore, partly due to some of the dumb things that coaster enthusiasts have done over the years (including while lit up on various substances).

I've got an old vid of the Thunderbolt and ACE members were allowed to walk the coasters while the rides were open to the public. That last back turn on the Thunderbolt is hilarious with no brakes. It's so fast and everyone is totally compressed to the left side of the train.

I was lucky enough to ride the Beast with little or no brakes. It scared the hell outta me and I thought the thing was gonna literally RIP off the track.

I was also lucky to ride Steel Phantom with no brakes. It was so fast that there literally was no time for headbanging. It was very funny to watch, like a cartoon, almost unreal. Same with Great America Shockwave. Arrow was reported to have told both parks to NOT run those rides like that.

I tried to find some old vids on youtube of the above instances, but have been outta luck so far.

There was a video of the Beast, a reverse POV, when there were upholstery buttons on the seats.. and the riders are flying high outta their seats on the 2nd drop and next rise... And goin past that 'lift box' on the 2nd lift...

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:05 PM

Cropsey said:
They did it with Mr. Twister but that was over 40 years ago.

Getting technical here, but weren't the original Mr. Twister at Elitch's and Thunderbolt at Kennywood "extended" not reprofiled?

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:37 PM
^Well if you really wanna get technical, parts had to be profiled to fit the new 'design'. I know the 'big drop' after the spaghetti bowl on the Thunderbolt was originally a double dip after the lift on the Pippin.

I dunno about the Twister though. We'd need someone who knew for sure, or we'd have to study some old vids/pictures.

And suprising that people still disagree with me that the Demon's first drop is different than the Turn of the Century's... it's very very clear if you look in the pics.

So there is always gonna be someone that will disagree with what was done with a ride.

Another example, I have pics that I took myself of the GA Cyclone the year it opened, and pics from '93. The first drop and 'post turn' drop are VERY CLEARLY different. I mean, you can see the old holes, etc. But people still insist these things haven't changed.

And I for one think the last years of the Texas Cyclone's drop were surely more brutal than the original drop. When I rode it in '90 in the red morgan coffin car, I remember how it threw u out and slammed you down... it was originally built with a snap at the top, a straight section (the length of one train) then the pull out.

For the life of me, I dunno why Bill Cobb designed the Riverside Cyclone's 'station drop' the way it is. There was an interview around that time and he said that's exactly what you didn't wanna do in a coaster... get someone so far outta their seat, then slam them back down. There needs to be a 'straight' or milder section between the crack and the slam. But that drop has remained unchanged, and is still painful to the spine.

OOOps, think I'm gettin off topic, sorry :) Just coaster geekin out!

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:39 PM
They were "enhanced." ;)
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Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:56 PM
Some parks still turn off the trims for coaster events :). Ive experienced the Beast (at night too,) Magnum (in Aug, so not because of the cold,) Gemini, and Alpengeist (I have no idea how it was just a standard afternoon ride) trimless and they were fantastic.

Looking forward to hopefully hitting up Holliwood Lights this year and experiencing my first night and trimless rides on Legand and Raven and my first ride period on Voyage.

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:21 PM
Raven and Legend don't have trims period. but the do get more intense at night :)

Chuck

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Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:07 PM
Don't forget ThunderHead at night is rolling....
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Friday, December 14, 2007 10:58 AM
Charles has a great idea for that brake run. Why didn't I think of that??? ;)

By the way, manofthechurch, the next time you start a thread, you should probably make the title a little more descriptive. -e

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Friday, December 14, 2007 6:16 PM

J7G3 said:
[...]a good woodie usually does have 'lateral g's'.

Precisely. Lateral Gs are primarily why good wooden coasters feel 'out of control'. I love the newer twisters with the highly-banked turns, but I sometimes find they don't feel as out of control as they look like they should. Dorney's Thunderhawk is my #1 (c'mon, stop laughing), and a lot of that has to do with the wild laterals (and simultaneous air) during the reprofiled turnaround. The brilliance of Schmeck's designs is in their simplicity, and the absolutely crazy forces exerted on you as you ride, yet never to the point of inflicting pain. Schmeck coasters to me are some of the most reridable coasters around.

I haven't been on Beast since 2000, so I don't know if it's been tamed further, but I loved it then. I'd be irritated if it was reprofiled, especially the helix finale. The laterals in that thing make the ride for me.

As for SoB...sure, reprofile it. Hell, rebuild it. Redesign it. Return the loop. ReTAER IT DOWN. I don't care.

*** Edited 12/15/2007 4:13:15 AM UTC by Vater***

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Friday, December 14, 2007 7:00 PM
It is possible to answer your question, however I don't usually agree with re-profiling a ride to tame it unless people are really getting hurt. I think some people are so touchy and sensitive to roller coasters. I mean its a roller coaster not a merry-go-round you might get shakin up a bit!
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Friday, December 14, 2007 9:17 PM
The trick of a good woody is to not FEEL OVER ENGINEERED, Something some say the Intamins that still give some out of control feel are.

Chuck

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