Interesting thought about 4D coasters

Friday, July 20, 2001 12:44 AM
X doesn't seem to have this, surely on 4D coasters the seats on one side can flip one way & the other side the opposite direction. Just have the pitch rails at opposite positions.

Another thing, do the pitch rails allow endless flips or just 180 or 360 degrees of movement only due to the way the seats are connected? Hope you know what I mean.

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The Taipan, Australia's most venomous snake - also the name of my model coaster in personal photo.
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Friday, July 20, 2001 4:32 AM
I'm pretty sure the seats can completely rotate all around(this thought comes from no techinical knowledge and just making an educated guess from the X video, please contact Rideman for a more intelligent response!).

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Craig, nearing 1,000
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Friday, July 20, 2001 5:17 AM
If they can flip 360, then they have to flip back 360 before finishing the course. I haven't seen the device really up close, but it appears there's a tie rod that goes from the second rail bogey to the seats. That said, it can only go so far before it has to come back.

Regarding the seats going in different directions, I'm wondering if that wouldn't shift the center of gravity to somewhere not desirable.

I'm still waiting to hear if that guy who owns the patent on the concept is going to sue Arrow...

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Friday, July 20, 2001 5:26 AM
What! They stole it?

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"All the good bands are affiliated with Satan." -Bart Simpson
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Friday, July 20, 2001 10:18 AM
from what I can tell, the second car-within-the main car rides on the inside rails. These rails look to move a few inches up and down within the track, and since this car is attached to a cable that rotates the chairs, I'd assume you'd have to do a 360 degree rotation back after you've done one forwards. However, with the track also doing inversions it would be pretty easy to conceal the reversal (especially on a raven turn) by rotating the opposite direction as the cars rotate.

-djansi
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Friday, July 20, 2001 11:06 AM
After looking at the video on Arrow's site, I finally got this thing figured out.

Each side of the train has a shaft with a long column on it. You can see the column that sits in the shaft in the train photos on Twisted Rails. It looks like one side of that column has gear teeth on it that slide along side of the giant axle for the seats. The bottom of that column is attached to the extra rail bogies.

You can see in Arrow's prototype video (on their site) that the column moves down with the rail and rotates the seats. It also confirms what I said earlier: You can go 360, but you have to rotate back before going through the circuit again.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Friday, July 20, 2001 12:25 PM
they stole it?
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Friday, July 20, 2001 12:59 PM
I'd love to see a schematic for the mechanism. I wonder how much force would be involved in rotating four peopled seats...I wonder how much kinetic energy is transformed by the friction caused by the device. Is it difficult to rotate the cars?

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Yeeee Haaawwww!
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Friday, July 20, 2001 3:00 PM
I agree with everybody here that you will not beable to have continuos movement. that you will have to go back were you came from. Simple Mechanics dictates this from the design of the ride. What would be cool would be to have some sort of release mechanism that would allow the trains to rotate freely at one point in the ride say at the brake run for a few seconds. Could you see this? When the train hits the brakes it releases the gears and your forward momentum would cause you to rotate a couple of times depending on where the most weight is.

janfrederick- It would not really take that much to rotate two people if the rotation is at the center of the peoples gravity sitting in the coaster. And since the energy to rotate the seats comes from the momentum of the train moving this would in essence cause the train to slow down some but I am sure it is not that much needed that it severely effects the speed of the train.

The one question that I have is will the two sides of the train have independant movement or will all four sides be linked causing the exact same movement on each side of the train. The reason I ask is thatthere are two rails to control the movement of the seats this makes me think they are independant of each other one for each side. But it could be just redundancy. My thought on this is that if they are independant you could have one side of the ride do more rotations or less and make the ride totally different. For instance on X half of the riders could face head first down the first drop and the other half right side up. And in this you could make one side of the train more intense/scarrier than the other.

But who knows the full rotation of the seats is it 360 or 720. Nobody but arrow knows I am sure but since this simple mechanical design involves gears than changing the ratio on those gears would yield a greater range of movement. ie adding more teath or length to the rod wich moves the gear or making the gear on the train smaller with less gears would yield more rotation. The opposite causing less rotation.
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Friday, July 20, 2001 3:07 PM
One more thing I forgot to talk about the patent thing.
If I am not mistaking this technology used in X is similiar to one way that old coal cars could cause a carriage to dump its load at a specific point. 4D may have just applied the idea in a different way.
Anybody know more?

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#1 Steel-Incredible Hulk
#1 Wood--Timber Wolf
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Friday, July 20, 2001 8:54 PM
personally i think this ride is gonna be more like a stupid flat ride. i dont know much about it but it seems like you'll be rotating alot. id rather the train stay were it is and not rotate. so i can evjoy it. i dont want to be flipping around in the car. i'll go on the zipper if i want that

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1.Fire Dragon, 2.Ice Dragon, 3.Raptor, 4.Kraken, 5.Batman Knight Flight
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Friday, July 20, 2001 9:10 PM
there are not going to be that many rotations, just ones that enhance the ride,in a way that simple track cannot allow, the guide rails have been used in various things, the mine trains are a good example......
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Friday, July 20, 2001 9:18 PM
PCW-2002- I dont know if you have seen the following video. But if you have, you should know that this rides flips will be gracfull, smooth and somewhat slow. I am positive that this ride will feel like a coaster more then anything (like the zipper). http://rcr.csun.edu/karld/x3rd.mov
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