Iger says Disney theme park price increases were too "aggressive"

Mainstream radio sucks, and has for as long as I can remember. But back when Living Colour broke onto the scene, radio was the main method of getting music to the masses. Popularity and talent often don't go hand-in-hand, also. All of those are the reasons I mention it isn't always about race or whatever. Especially in the entertainment industry where taste is subjective, you can't always point to bigotry as the reason an artist doesn't "make it"...but in this case specifically, Living Colour was insanely successful. Sure, their popularity waned within a few short years, but the percentage of bands that have huge success that spans decades is miniscule. I remember buying Stain, their third album, and I thought it was in many ways artistically superior to their previous efforts, but just like millions of other bands' follow-ups, didn't have the mass marketability that Vivid did.

Jeff:

HFS in Baltimore

Yeah, that station was great...until it wasn't.

Vater:

But back when Living Colour broke onto the scene, radio was the main method of getting music to the masses.

MTV enters the chat.

Well, ok. But much of what was on MTV was also on the radio. Also, not everyone had MTV in the late 80s. I didn't until the early 90s.

MTV had their wider range of stuff, but they had their niche shows that usually played late at night, and they were pretty good, and maybe even credible.

The Canadian content for 89X sure (lots of Tragically Hip there), but the dichotomy of NIN and Sarah was pretty universal across alt stations in the US. That's when I had access to Radio & Records (is that still a thing?) so I could see the playlists around the country. Some even got adventurous enough to work in a little KMFDM at one end, and Jewel at the other. I loved it.

Jeff's mention of Canada and its music had me thinking back to seeing Corey Hart in concert back in 2019 up in Toronto. I expected about 4-5,000 people would show up to relive some of their 80's memories. I was surprised when I got there and found a sold-out venue of about 15,000. And they weren't just singing along to "Sunglasses At Night". They were singing along with every song he did that night (I recall about 20 songs in the set). "Boy In the Box", "I Am By Your Side" and even "Bang! (Starting Over)" were all known and loved by everyone, yet if you played any of those songs down here, I doubt anyone would even recognize them. Same goes for The Hip. They were truly a great band and Gord's death was a heartbraking moment for Canada, and therefore the world. I was always surprised they never made it big down here. Anyhow, I enjoyed this detour of the thread...I guess to stay on topic, Disney still hates poor people? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Mulfinator:

Race may have had some part in the lack of Living Colour catching on. However, I think they have been more a victim of an oversaturated market without much to differentiate. The late 80's into early 90's was the peak of popularity of metal. Largely this was dominated by hair metal bands (Motley Crue, Poison, Skid Row, etc) and thrash metal bands (Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, etc). Living Colour wasn't either. I don't know that there was much room for bands that didn't fit much of a mold. I feel the same way about Faith No More. They are one of my favorite bands but they certainly weren't popular outside of Epic. They were a band who was different from everyone else but not in a genre defining way. However, they did influence many future bands who had great success. Maybe that's the legacy of Living Colour as well.

As a die hard metal fan who grew up in the 80's, here's my take:

Living Colour was presented as a gimmick. The gimmick was "Look everybody, an all Black metal band on Top 40 radio, isn't that adorable?" After time, it passed. Top 40 moved on, as is it's very nature, and metal fans did too. I remember hearing the entire album at one point or another and thinking it was just mediocre, and have never looked back. Just to be perfectly clear here, I'm not saying that any race stepping outside of stereotypes is a gimmick. Not at all. I'm saying that Living Colour was absolutely presented as one. It was their main selling point when they were introduced to the mainstream, and it made them famous. If they are as talented as you say they are (maybe I'll give them a listen in the next few days) then it's unfortunate that they couldn't rise above it.

P.S. Funny you mention Faith No More, (who originally had a Black vocalist, fwiw.) They are one of my all time favorite bands, who also came into popularity through a gimmick, in this case, the rap-rock song "Epic." While I admit Epic was what Introduced Myself (heh heh) to the band, it is now my least favorite of their songs. I feel it misrepresents the band (as an early rap-rock gimmick) yet is the only song most people know.

P.P.S. Many don't know that Courtney Love did an extremely brief stint as FNM's vocalist when the band was first forming. Thankfully, very little of that footage still exists. I've seen some of it, it's as awful as you can imagine.

Give Vivid another listen. I think you'll be surprised. I never thought of it as metal.

I never quite understood why Faith no More is a thing either. That one song was good and had a good video. Patton's stint with Dillinger Escape Plan was interesting though.

Yeah, Vivid is a solid album, and I never thought their talent was ever questionable. And I agree that it's not metal, but I think that term is overused for anything considered heavy with distorted guitars.

Tommytheduck:

While I admit Epic was what Introduced Myself (heh heh) to the band, it is now my least favorite of their songs.

I've never been into FNM, but the stuff I've heard aside from Epic is awesome. I always hated Epic. Unfortunately, a lot of "one-hit wonder" artists suffer from their one hit being the furthest thing from representing said artist.

I think you misunderstand what Mulf and I are saying. FNM is one of the greatest bands of all time. Their sound has changed around a lot from album to album. Many people, myself included, will say that Angel Dust is an absolute masterpiece. It is certainly a desert island record for me.

It's just unfortunate that their biggest hit misrepresents the band, IMO.

What did I misunderstand? I was agreeing that their biggest hit is not their best representation, and possibly their worst song (while you don't hate it like I do, you said it's your least favorite of their songs).

Vater:

I remember buying Stain, their third album, and I thought it was in many ways artistically superior to their previous efforts, but just like millions of other bands' follow-ups, didn't have the mass marketability that Vivid did.

I'm listening to Stain right now...first time in probably 20 years, maybe more. My quoted statement isn't totally wrong, but I'll double down on it not being as marketable as Vivid. It's not even in the same vicinity. Yeah, maybe it could be argued it's artistically superior (in some ways), but I think it's probably more accurate to say that it's extremely experimental at the expense of good songwriting. It's pretty out there and as non-commercial as they'd ever been to that point.

It's funny, this stuff (power funk/rock) is very much along the lines of what I was into in the early 90s, and was really huge in the DC local/college music scene in the DC area at the time. I was gigging in a band in 93 and 94 and we were heavily influenced by RHCP, 311, Living Colour, early Live, Infectious Grooves, etc. If anyone cares, here's a couple of our better songs from...egad...around 30 years ago. Won't hurt my feelings if you hate it, trust me.

24-7

Circle's Edge

Honestly Vater, those two songs are infinitely more listenable than anything Living Colour did to me. The recording is better too. The vocals are reminiscent of Moon Tooth.

Jeff:

Theme parks are not an entitlement.

Only Six Flags. But that’s a different discussion.

As someone who also grew up as a fan of heavier music in the 80's, I don't think it's too hard to see why Living Colour was never gonna sell to that market.

No one I knew at the time was gonna touch that **** with a ten foot pole. That's a different universe from Cult of Personality and, for better or worse, MTV was the zeitgeist.

"I'm Fierce!"

You know, I remembered the name of that song during this whole discussion, and I vaguely remembered it being my least favorite song on the album...something about it being kind of cheesy.

I was right...although I'd completely forgotten how terrible that video was.

Tommytheduck:

P.S. Funny you mention Faith No More, (who originally had a Black vocalist, fwiw.) They are one of my all time favorite bands, who also came into popularity through a gimmick, in this case, the rap-rock song "Epic." While I admit Epic was what Introduced Myself (heh heh) to the band, it is now my least favorite of their songs. I feel it misrepresents the band (as an early rap-rock gimmick) yet is the only song most people know.

P.P.S. Many don't know that Courtney Love did an extremely brief stint as FNM's vocalist when the band was first forming. Thankfully, very little of that footage still exists. I've seen some of it, it's as awful as you can imagine.

Epic was my introduction the band as well. It is definitely different than everything else on the Real Thing. Angel Dust was / is such an amazing album but I also loved the direction the band took on King for a Day and Sol Invictus. Each album is so different but still quintessentially FNM. Introduce Yourself, Angel Dust, and Dirt by Alice in Chains were on constant repeat during my early Mario Kart days.

As much as I love Cult of Personality from what I remember there was a huge drop-off on the rest of Vivid. I may need to take another listen to see if my recollection is correct. I do remember Glamour Boys being atrocious.

Jeff:

MTV had their wider range of stuff, but they had their niche shows that usually played late at night, and they were pretty good, and maybe even credible.

Headbangers Ball was such an important show for me and must watch Saturday night viewing. I was introduced to so many great bands (Megadeth, Sepultura, Slayer, Pantera, etc.) on those Saturday nights.

Headbangers Ball played Cult of Personality a lot. It was the most important show on TV for me when I was a teenager. I would write down every song and run out on Sunday morning to buy the CDs of the bands I discovered on the show.

I think interest in the song was propelled by recent politics, as alluded to by Jeff earlier in the conversation. I recall not loving most of the album, but Cult of Personality alone was worth the purchase.

I was the kid from the cornfields that listened to alt. rock instead of the typical country fare. My XC coach introduced me to REM when Out of Time was released and I was forever hooked.

I finally got some respect for my taste in music when I got asked to go home and change for wearing a Deadeye Dick t-shirt to school.

Interesting comparison, as everyone knows the song "New Age Girl" (thanks to Dumb and Dumber and the MTV), but that song is such an outlier on the album "A Different Story". It's a great album from start to finish.

My high school journey was definitely that. I started liking the usual pop and hair bands, but by the time I graduated, I was tired of all the bands that wanted to sound like Def Leppard. I was vaguely interested in The Cure, Depeche Mode and this angry guy with a "Head Like A Hole." My roommate freshman year then filled in all of the gaps with a lot of REM (Life's Rich Pageant is one of the best albums ever) and the rise of the Seattle music.

Living Colour's "Glamour Boys" was not, uh, a strong song for them. I think the other strong titles from that album were "Desperate People," "Open Letter" and "Which Way To America?" Though "Broken Hearts" I thought showed some range, even if it wasn't a banger.

Vater:

I'd completely forgotten how terrible that video was.

I would argue that most videos were terrible then.