If Six Flags Still had WOA, would it be the flagship park?

When they bought the place they put several new rides in, You think that kingda ka would have went there to compete with cedar point if Six Flags still owned it?

I doubt it. The park never showed a return on investment in the first place. Why keep sinking money into it?

Upper management at the park knew at the end of the summer of 2002 that it just wasn't going to work. Rumors were rampant in 2003 that the park was going to be sold. Several times employees were told to clean the park for "Corporate Inspections", only to have no one come... it was later learned that possible buyers were coming into the park during those times. The shocker for most employees was who it actually was sold to, especially considering the animosity towards "the park up north!"

*** Edited 3/24/2005 6:09:50 AM UTC by Fun***

As far as putting in a Kingda Ka/Dragster there I don't think Bainbridge township would have allowed something of that nature. It seems like they had a hard enough time getting other coasters in that park!

I'll tell ya, in 1999, when they annouced that GL would be turned into SFO, I was crushed. Not that I hated SF at the time, but a place I've went to since childhood, the best place on earth in my own personal opinion, was going SFish.

I knew that the Park was undergoing a gradual change in service and satsfation. 1995, 96 were good years, then that is when I noticed a change in service and cleanliness. It wasn't so terrible at first, but year after year, the worse and worse it became.

Premier bought SF and I knew it was coming. Sure enough, it became SFO. I was like, man, they are just gonna crap all over this place aren't they? So, then the 2000 season was drawing near, and when I saw the rides that were being installed, I remember saying to myself, "Well, maybe there IS something to this SF stuff".

But yep, sure enough it wasn't too far into the season before I started to notice the typical crap start to settle in again, and that was it for me. I never went back. I continued to go to Sea World, but stayed away from over there.

Then, another knife to the chest, SF buys SW. I didn't even bother going back. that was it for me. I remember back in the 80's and early 90's, the park was clean, friendly, and just plain fun. A true sign that Funtime was a group formerly of Cedar Fair.

So, in 2002, rumors were spreading about selling SFWOA. I was not suprised at all. I thought this was it, forget a GL return, the park is going under. it's over. 2003, it was offical , we all knew it was over for the park.

Until March 10th, the day I damn near passed out from seeing the fact that CF bought the place and was returning GL to the people. I was excited as hell, but I knew the park was going to have a rough season.

I knew they would ditch the whole idea of an animal park , so that takes a hit right there. The image SF left behind was of disgrace, and so many did not return due to thinking it was still SF, and some that thought the park was closed for good and that was it.

Lack of any real good advertising, if any at all except for the local "fun" commercial. Not to mention mild rainy weather. But if you notice, near the end at the Octoberfest and the Haunt, Attendance was actually climbing. This is because they had more time to prepare and advertise these events.

I went and spent a whole week in the "new" GL Campground, and my theory was right. CF is just the company who I want to own GL. Such a dramatic change compared to SF operations. I loved it and continued to go throughout the summer.

One thing kept hitting me as I walked to the south side. "What are they gonna do with this place?" So many rumors, such as housing, hotels, nothing, and I doubted everyone of them. Heck I even doubted the Waterpark "rumor" , but wished they would do it.

Then on Nov 10th there it was. WWK to debut on the south side. Fantastic. I'm sure they will focus on this being the CP of waterparks. The huge layout and size of the park and attractions they have planned are enough to make it a top number one park alone. But with future expansion, it's gonna be way impressive.

Since there will never be a marine park there again, it's great to know that the property will still revolve around the aqua theme. It's gonna look alot different. But it's for the better, and I'm damn glad CF is running the show. GL is back!

As for the flagship park, I truely believe that WWK at GL will be CF's flagship waterpark. So, there may be no kinda ka style coasters there, but a great new waterpark is what the general public love. And it will surely continue to grow. *** Edited 3/24/2005 6:19:03 AM UTC by lakecrystal***

Everybody acts like Cedar Fair is God. They are a company out to make money. You talk about 6 flags spending money, hell cedar fair spends alot dropping in rides at parks and what not. If SFGADV or MM put in a giga and rocket coaster in 3 years at a cost of over 50 million you all would be saying that they suck.

---

Beast Tamer said:
You talk about 6 flags spending money, hell cedar fair spends alot dropping in rides at parks and what not. If SFGADV or MM put in a giga and rocket coaster in 3 years at a cost of over 50 million you all would be saying that they suck.

---

Go read their financial reports, attendance reports and anything you can on general guest satisfaction.

You'll see a stunning difference in the companies.

Actually, SF dropping $50 million at one park would be a possibly catastrophic and easily tagged as 'horrible' move and it has nothing to do with anyone being a fanboy of one chain over the other (mostly).

We're all enthusiasts. No one wants to see SF fail. If anything the negativity is simply the online manifestation of the frustration we all feel towards an amusement park chain that had so much potential, but seemingly makes all the wrong moves.

SF blew it in Ohio...big time.

But...But...But...Cedar Fair has too their first year at Geauga, Gonch, don't you read the message boards?;)

If SFWoA still existed, and SFI goes thru with an improvement in Customer Service @ SFGAdv, SFMM, and obvously SFWoA, it could have been a top tier park. Eventually.

But they smoked it up big ltime ike Chonch, err, Gonch (sorry, wrong thread) said, and now Cedar Fair comes in to try and salvage a park.

So they lost attendance by half, but then, half the park was closed, and the animals went bu-bye. Cedar Fair did mostly all the right things with Geauga this past year, and next year, I bet you we'll see better results, what with a price drop, a new water park, painted coasters, and more to come.

If Cedar Fair really cared about the people and park, they would have done what it took to keep the sea world side. Even though they have no expierence with animals, they could have hired people.

Look at paramount they rarely put new rides in, no paramount park even has a steel hyper. Their customer service must be the bomb then. *** Edited 3/24/2005 7:12:04 AM UTC by Beast Tamer***

You dont get it.

The wildlife side of the park was losing money big time. Remember, you have to pay to keep animal trainers and staff all year and not to mention the cost of feeding all the animals.

If the wildlife side of the park had any chance of making it,they would of had to of had a seperate gate.

I dont get how you can say that "they dont care". Cedar fair is in buisness to make money. And to keep the sea world side going would have been a very bad buisness decision.

Six flags tried to keep it open, see what happend to them.

---

Beast Tamer said:
If Cedar Fair really cared about the people and park, they would have done what it took to keep the sea world side. Even though they have no expierence with animals, they could have hired people.

Look at paramount they rarely put new rides in, no paramount park even has a steel hyper. Their customer service must be the bomb then.

---

Please tell me you weren't trying to make any sense with that post, because if so, you succeded.

Six Flags kept the Sea World side, so that automatically means they 'cared' about the people and the park? If they cared so much, tell me why attendance went down the crapper with Shamu's excrement? Huh? I thought so. Cedar Fair is trying, Six Flags cared so much they abandoned the park and took their animals with them.

Why should CF have to go thru all the trouble of repopulating the parks with animals? Didn't you learn anything about how tough it is to get animals when SFI was there trying to get a whale?

I've been to 3 CF parks and 4 SFI parks, and I can say that I'd much rather go to a CF park and be treated with their customer service than an SFI park any day of the week, month, summer, or year. Like Gonch said, the problem isn't that we don't want SFI to suceed, we know they could if they tried hard enough.

When it comes to Kingda Ka, you probably would never have seen it there for the sole purpose that they couldn't even get a Hyper approved easily enough, so do you really think they'd build Kingda Ka there?

And as for your Paramount not having a Hyper comment, how does that affect anything, esp. the customer service? I like Paramount better than SF, CF, and for that matter, almost as much as Disney.

---

Lord Gonchar said:

Go read their financial reports, attendance reports and anything you can on general guest satisfaction.

You'll see a stunning difference in the companies.

---

The problem is that Six Flags doesn't publish attendance numbers, in addition to being so much larger and possessing so much debt that it can fail to show a profit.

---

flogbert said:
The problem is that Six Flags doesn't publish attendance numbers

---

That's true, and accurate gate numbers would be helpful in some discussions, but it does take a rocket scientist to infer from simple observation what parks were struggling (SFWOA) and what parks are currently really thriving. SFNE certainly seems to be one.

All of the CF parks seem to be consistent, steady, reliable money makers which have been at that point for years and years. SF seems to have a handful of parks that fit into that category easily, but when you're blaming the weather for soft attendance year after year at the other parks, it just doesn't ring true with a lot of people.

I still think we're going to see a lot of positive changes at many, many SF parks this year, and I really look forward to seeing them for myself and hearing about them.

We as enthusiasts like to bash SF, and I think for the most part for good reason, but I think we all still want SF to be successful. After all, if we go look at the 2004 Internet Steel Tracked Roller Coaster Poll, 8 of the top 20 are at SF parks.

If the wildlife side was such a huge and profitable draw, please tell me why Busch sold it, and why it was like a ghost town most of the time after Six Flags bought it.

Cedar Fair's direction will work in the long run because they're finding (or rediscovering) the park's niche. For Six Flags to come in and think they could establish a new brand and better value proposition after a century of being in Cedar Point's neighborhood, they were crazy. Geauga Lake always had a certain niche for company picnic groups and a solid water park business.

I think Cedar Fair parks are run great, but my experience at GL last year was abysmal. I hope the public doesn't realize that the expansion on the Wildlife side is not much more than the transfer of the waterpark elements from the ride side.

It's true that CF had almost no time to fix things up the way they want them to be. I hope that this year proves to be a banner year at GL, I love that place, and have had many excellent times there before and after the flags arrived.

As for the initial subject:

At the Original SFO Media Day, SF did say "We want Six Flags Ohio to become our Capital of Six Flags." Also, SF did say it would take about 10 years to do so...most people gave them, what, 3 years?

On some other notes. Yes, they did have some bad years. But for anyone to say they just kept going down obiviously didn't visit the park in it's last year. And trust me, Shouka stadiums became PACKED in it's final year. Things were starting to change. Were they perfect? No. But improving.

I would estimate that SFWoa did almost twice as many people in 2003 compared to 2002 from walking on the midways both years over 50 times. I do think SFWoA management also got fed up with SF coporate with the whole Lost Continent money, and money they asked for to improve the park. And upset managment led to bad managment with employees etc. Then you have the fact that no one made a clear decision on the two gate issue and how to CLEARLY address it.

However, one thing I think they DRAMATICALLY, and constantly, improved upon was the landscaping since they opened from day one. The last season of operation the flowers, designs, etc. Looked awesome.

It's time to move foward, and I look foward to seeing Wild Water Kingdom on "The World's Best Water Parks 2007"...Along with Sandusky's Kalahari ;)
*** Edited 3/24/2005 2:14:49 PM UTC by RollerCoasterGod***

If Sea World/Busch can't make a marine park work I don't know why anyone thinks another company can. They are the Disney of marine parks.

I think the relocation of the water park is a win-win-win. The residents on the Bainbridge/Aurora side now have a relatively quiet activity in their backyard. If anyone was around that area in the late, late hours it was amazing how loud those sea lions were. Barking like dogs all night long.

Water slides will be a welcome replacement.

Also, I hate seeing people walking around in an amusement park in nothing but bathing suits. This move will separate two distinct activities

Finally, there wasn't really any rhyme or reason to the waterpark at Geauga Lake. Things were here, there, everywhere.

Now, it will be done right.

"Everybody acts like Cedar Fair is God. They are a company out to make money."

Duh!?!! I have never seen a company try NOT to make money. Are you sure you read what you write before posting?

"If Cedar Fair really cared about the people and park, they would have done what it took to keep the sea world side. Even though they have no expierence with animals, they could have hired people."

I'm sure.....no, I'm even 100% positive that Cedar Fair execs know more than you on the cost to revenue benefits of having animals in their parks...especially a seasonal park. They have looked at more marketing reports in the last week, than all of us will in our lifetime. Plus, I always want to invest millions into something I have no idea about (animal side)....your statements baffle me to no end.

If you root for Paramount and Six Flags, then have at it, I do too, but don't come on here after 20 posts thinking you're the Donald Trump of the amusement business and expect some kind of credibility. What you have said in this, as well as other posts, has yet to catch the attention of the intelligent side of the cosmos. Paramount is a solid company and has made huge strides, whereas Six Flags has made huge mistakes....and this is a known fact....thus, we are discussing it after the fact and with knowledge of their mistakes. SF's customer service, as a whole, is deplorable. Do I want to see SF die? As an enthusiast, not in the least. But, sitting around thinking you know more than the execs of a highly successful company is like using that Forbes Magazine you've got in the bathroom, as toilet paper.

Dude, it sounds like you are BEGGING us to bow down to these two companies, Paramount & SF. They both give us want we want....thrills. Everyone has their personal preference, please stop trying to make us see the "other side of the rainbow."

"....that's like an alien talking to a fungo." ~ Bull Durham.

PS: To all other coasterbuzzers...I refuse to apologize for my outbursts, but Spring Break just didn't come fast enough.

And Jeff, if you need me to relax, just let me know. *** Edited 3/24/2005 2:48:38 PM UTC by Woody*** *** Edited 3/24/2005 2:49:55 PM UTC by Woody***

---

I would estimate that SFWoa did almost twice as many people in 2003 compared to 2002 from walking on the midways both years over 50 times.

---

Then your estimate is wrong. Even though they don't release actual #'s. SF stated at end of year in thier reports that attendance was down from teh previous year.

Good to see you all active and stuff, Woody!

Six Flags is in it to make money too, they just suck at it. ;)