I am a hypocrite. I bought Fastlane.

Part of the problem is the unlimited aspect. If people are riding over and over with FL, then it going to cause a problem. One person with FL can be cutting in line like three or four people who do it maliciously.

Unless you believe the posts above mine (and I have no reason not to) telling us that the most popular rides often have Fast Lane waits of up to 30 minutes.

Then the system is working flawlessly.

That CF isn't implementing re-ride limits for FL users after 1.5 years of experience with it also indicates that they are not an issue (at least an actual one even if a possible one).

Volcano at Kings Dominion had a two ride with Fast Lane limit last year.

I'd suspect that Cedar Fair hasn't gone to virtual queueing for these reasons:

(1) they can sell the wristbands in more locations throughout the park other than just a central center. Note the sign for Fast Lane wristband sales right outside of Firehawk's line entrance

(2) they can sell the wristbands much more quickly than the Qbot because you don't need to sign an agreement saying you'll return a wristband

(3) it's easier for customers to simply queue wherever they want without having to look at a Qbot to constantly check on return times

(4) Cedar Fair doesn't have to split any of the proceeds with Lo Q

LostKause said:

Part of the problem is the unlimited aspect. If people are riding over and over with FL, then it going to cause a problem. One person with FL can be cutting in line like three or four people who do it maliciously.

But people who do buy fast lane are either:

1. rich people on vacation who want to use their money to get every perk
2. people who are going on their one trip a year and want to get the most out of it
3. or wild crazy people like us who get it on a busy day because not getting in our 25 roller coasters wouldn't be right

These are all very compelling arguments. I see all of your points and agree with just about all of them. Even you, Gonch ;) Your arguments have shifted my perception somewhat. I won't lie, if the situation arises in the future, I might just use the system again. I *will not* however, use the system at my home park. The beauty of CP's website is that you can check their webcams and get a view of their parking lot. Based on that alone I know when to stay home. So therefore, since I will never use it at CP, I will remain a victim (yeah, I know, overdramatic) of Fastlane every time I visit.

Perhaps I'm just threatened by change. Under the old system, everyone was treated equally. No matter if you were rich or poor, you could pay to get in the park, and all of a sudden everyone became equal. Subject to the same set of rules and wait times. Now it has changed, and the option to cut the line has given an advantage to those with money.

I reluctantly accept the system. Money buys privileges. Anyone can tell you that. But you will never convince me that cutting the line does not harm the people whom you have cut. And that is my beef.

As coastertools, we hate line cutters. I've stood up to people who have tried to cut in front of me. Whether using the "my Mom's up there" approach, or just the thug wannabe gangsters who think that I'm scared of them because of their look.

How's this for irony... in the queue for Silver Bullet, there was a security guard standing on an elevated area of the exit ramp watching the line, looking for line jumpers. He smiled and said hello to us as we walked up the exit ramp and line jumped.

Gary Dowdell said:
We now have evidence that bunching at popular rides is happening with the introduction of the Fast Lane vs. Fast Lane Plus option at the larger Cedar Fair parks (two of the most popular attractions are only accessible to quick queuers through the Plus version).

I think you mostly have an anecdote. I interpret this to mean, "Crap, we're leaving money on the table, so we better do this, especially now that we have this big new shiny ride that's getting so much attention."

Tommytheduck said:

Especially you, Gonch ;)

Fixed that for you. :)

Jeff said:

I think you mostly have an anecdote. I interpret this to mean, "Crap, we're leaving money on the table, so we better do this, especially now that we have this big new shiny ride that's getting so much attention."

I'm hoping for the exact opposite. If every park puts the big shiny new 20-25M ride only on the "extra-plus" option, then the greater use of "regular-plus" queue management devices minimizes the effect on the ride that everyone wants to ride. I seem to remember that being the case with whatever-bots and X at SFMM early in its life....the ride wasn't on the list of attractions for regular users, only the super-premium device accessed X.

edited to eliminate unnecessary quotage...

Tommytheduck said:

These are all very compelling arguments. I see all of your points and agree with just about all of them. Even you, Gonch ;) Your arguments have shifted my perception somewhat.

I told you not to look directly into his goggles. lol I looked into them once and backpedaled just like you did. It has something to do with his beard too. It is just so darned irresistible. :p

I'll admit that I am used to it more now, and when I make my points against it, it's just me trying to hang on to the old ways. I hate change. I still hate this line cutting crap. I wish I was the nice guy that I used to be, but this new world has left me colds and bitter, and uncaring about whose toes I step on as I climb my way to the top of the Fast Lane entrance ramp.

...That was an attempt at humor (and it probably didn't work.) The point is that I don't care as much now about pay to cut as I used to, but I would love to be the kind of person that I was when I did.

I would pay for a q-bot / wristband that would let me virtually skip any New York City Department of Motor Vehicle line to "increase the value of that wonderful experience."

Any thoughts about using a similar system for a hospital emergency room if (G-d forbid) it is ever needed.

I'm sure there are quite a few well-off folks who would hand over quite a bit of cash for that privilige.

Seriously, I equate this whole thing to another hobby. Fishing. I could pay nothing , bring a small rod and try to catch a few fish from the pier. Every once in a while - a small school of blues might pass through which would give me the opportunity to fight a decent sized fish. Other than that, I would mostly have a shot at small snappers (weighing about 1/4 of a pound each.

Or I could pay about 80 bucks and board a party boat...where a liscensed captain takes up to 100 people on his boat for the day. He will chase fish, use sonar, radar, etc. and try to provide us with a decent catch. Yes the boat will be crowded, but at least I have a better shot at catching something decent.

Or...I could try to get together with five other people (which is hard because most of my friends don't fish) hire a private charter boat and enjoy a full day or liesure on the water. The cost for this is about a $300 - $400 per person.

Looking over the course of a typical season I go about 10 times. 7 times on the pier and 3 times on the "party boat." I only went on a charter boat one time and that was about 40 years ago.

It's all fishing. You get the experience that you pay for.

It's been like a decade since I've posted and this topic haven't evolved at all. Tommy the duck, listen to Lord Gonch, why this pointless shame? Trust that the park powers know what thrills you the most. It's not the coasters; you can coast in your car all you want. No, it's the thrill of stepping to the front of the line, pointing to those 'Wish we were you, poor wanta be's, and saying' "Hey, get out of my seat!" and then the front seat would tilt and dump those poor saps to the back of the line. Well, it would if it were a flying coaster, its not because its Knotts. The point is that's what gives us chills, to take what they thought was theirs, to see that look on their faces, that incongruity, that's why we go to parks!

You know, like when we watched those poor chumps eat hissing cock roaches just for one ride in the front seat. Six Flags was so brilliant to acknowledge the great entertainment value of desperation. No motivation to entertain if the lines are short. Keep those lines long, motivate to pay the big bucks or you'll end up eating big bugs. See, that's just smart business, unlike Knobel's that offers free parking and Holiday World giving away free soda. Chumps. They don't understand the joy of seeing who can afford a $10 soda and who can't. I just don't know why they haven't taken it farther.

Tommy, don't just sample or taste what you spent so much money on. Devour what you have, do a victory dance, show that pass to all those who have none and own that front of the pack. You know what they say, "If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes."

^ I don't think I want to live in the world you do.

Richie Reflux said:

Any thoughts about using a similar system for a hospital emergency room if (G-d forbid) it is ever needed.

I'm sure there are quite a few well-off folks who would hand over quite a bit of cash for that privilige.

Sadly, that's already happening. Maybe not at emergency rooms (I haven't heard of it) but certainly at some doctor's offices. Some of them have even constructed separate VIP entrances that bypass the waiting room entirely and get you straight into see the doctor, and also allow you as much time as you want/need with the doctor, as opposed to the get in get out treatment most of us are used to.

I think such a thing is completely unacceptable. When it comes to medical care, that's the one area where money should not get you better access. I don't like that in just about every other aspect of life those with the most can dump all over everyone who has less than them, but I accept the reality. However, I absolutely can't tolerate it happening when it comes to something as important as medical care. Yet somehow this country has remained just backwards enough to make sure those kinds of practices thrive.

Tommytheduck said:

The beauty of CP's website is that you can check their webcams and get a view of their parking lot. Based on that alone I know when to stay home.

Oh, man! I don't live close enough to utilize that tactic, and you do!

THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!

;-)

I think RC Madness's post is tightly-constructed satire.

I'm hoping RC Madness's post is tightly-constructed satire.

Not sure why folks are so squeamish? Park exects seem to hold back and not cash in on the full potential of their cash cow, or cattle, parade of lemmings...

I mean if it is supposed to be an amusement park, why the lack of amusement? Reality shows got it figured out. Why pay so much for scripts, actors, and acrobats? People are entertaining enough and parks have plenty. Watching people in desperate situations doing stupid stuff to avoid the crazy long lines is better then a live action game show. Eventually people forget they've been in line for three hours cause they've been waiting to see who will find the platinum pass in the giant bale of hey. They looked so hard but what they don't know that there is no platinum pass in the bale of hey. There would be fake challenges and real challenges scattered throughout the park and only those with the gold passes would know the difference. Not that they'd need a platinum pass, it just more fun to know when their desperate efforts are pointless at the unobtainable. Parks know we'd pay for that gold pass cause if we didn't, we'd never know if we were the butt of a joke/ prank for someone else's entertainment. We should never discourage free enterprise.

Break Trims said:

I think RC Madness's post is tightly-constructed satire.

I would have chosen the adjective, "poorly" or maybe even "predictably" - but if "tightly" works for you...

Gonch, talk about predictable. So glad to see you've held the line and never wavered from your corporate sponsored stance. I for one haven't needed financial persuasions to come around to 'common sense' as you put it. We should encourage and help parks come up with financial schemes to squeeze every last dime out of all those who enter. Kinda like the Hunger Games only they're volunteers; why should they complain? It's not fairness they've signed up for. People don't go to parks to escape dog-eat-dog real world realities. When I go to my local amusement park I want those inequalities amplified. Now that's a vacation!

It just makes my blood boil when I see Disney offers that stupid Express Pass a couple of times a day to all those who enter. It's just so fair, and lame. Where's the fun in that? Such a waste…

My Lord Gonch, I don't need to explain to you that parks increase incentives to purchase Q-bots by keeping the lines long and not wasting cash on adequate staffing of rides. We know the wisdom in that. Without log gams where is the fun of cutting to the front and feeling that money is well spent? It's the reason Tommy the duck said he bought the pass even though he was opposed to the practice of it. You're right, his mistake is that he allowed morality to enter into his decision. He would have had more fun if he didn't have that struggle. If we shouldn't struggle with the moral dilemmas why should parks? Why should those in charge of amusing us draw a line at all?

Speaking of amusing, perhaps you shouldn't try so hard to be. 3 posts and it's already beyond old.

Oh, I'm equally predictible. No doubt about it. But while I'm predictable in stance, you're predictable in tone and content.

I'd be lying if I said it didn't amuse me that it angers you so much that you've been writing these hyperbole-filled sarcastic diatribes for at least 6 years now.

I figure I must have a decent, compelling arguement if after all that time all you can offer is the same schoolyard mocking of the idea.

So in that spirit, sir, I do declare you to be a stinky poo poo brain with cooties.

(at least now we're playing on the same level)