I 305 gets trim on the first drop

Good Point

It's my understanding that a gray-out is a temporary loss of vision as a result of reduced blood flow to the brain. It usually starts with the loss of color perception then loss of peripheral vision that works its way in, almost like someone drawing a curtain closed. A black-out is an actual loss of consciousness, even if only for a moment. I haven't ridden the coaster yet, but I hope people aren't actually losing consciousness.

Since I305 is a cable lift coaster I assume it slingshots the train over the top of the lift, like Millennium Force. Why wouldn't they just slow down the lift as it crests the lift hill? That would effectively accomplish the same thing as trim near the top of the hill, but without extra cost.

It may not be that simple. If the train is like anything like Millennium Force then the lift hill has to maintain a certain speed to keep the anti-rollback retracted. If the coaster is slowed the anti-rollback will drop and start to ratchet as it goes up the hill, and it may not be designed to do that repeatedly.

MrZero said:

I didn't think this coaster was very re-ridable and it may be that KD was finding that to be the case. I find this to be good news and would look forward to riding it in the future. Still not liking the OTSR's on a coaster that doesn't go upside down.

Hmmm... but you like OTSR's on a coaster that does go upside down? Either way, coasters really don't need them, with properly designed and used lap restraints.

Valleyfair Enthusiast said:
Since I305 is a cable lift coaster I assume it slingshots the train over the top of the lift, like Millennium Force. Why wouldn't they just slow down the lift as it crests the lift hill? That would effectively accomplish the same thing as trim near the top of the hill, but without extra cost.

We've been over this a great deal, that this isn't how physics works. The horizontal motion of the coaster has negligible impact on the speed, which is mostly the result of the release of potential energy (falling). Mythbusters actually had several demonstrations of this recently. Most fascinating of this was the one where they dropped a bullet and shot one out of a gun simultaneously, and both hit the ground at the same time. The horizontal motion caused by the gun had zero impact on how fast it fell to earth.

What's different about a roller coaster is that there is another force acting on the falling object, that being the track. But in order for that to be a factor, the train would have to be moving fast enough that, in the absence of the track, it would continue moving horizontally. I think it's pretty obvious that wouldn't be the case.

??? VF Enthusiast's physical intuition is fine.

A trim brake is a mechanism for removing kinetic energy from a coaster train. Similarly, slowing down the lift hill is a technique for reducing the initial kinetic energy. Mathematically, there isn't a meaningful difference between adding a trim at the very top of the lift hill or slowing the lift. Both are mechanisms for regulating the initial kinetic energy of the train.

However, for a given drop height, the initial velocity is not a significant factor in the final velocity of the train. For a 300 ft drop, a train cresting the lift hill at 20mph has a theoretical maximum final velocity of 96.9 mph. Slowing the train to 10mph at the top results in a theoretical max velocity of 95.3 mph.

A trim added at a drop height of 290 ft that restricts the train's velocity to 20mph has the same effect as slowing the lift to 10mph. A more aggressive trim at 290 ft restricting velocity to 10mph results in a theoretical max velocity of 93.7 mph. The same trim settings at 285ft can reduce the theoretical max velocity to 92.9 mph.

Thus, a trim at a drop height 285-290 ft gives substantially more control of the final velocity than is possible by just slowing the lift.

(all calculations above neglect both friction and drag, actual mileage may vary)

CoasterDemon said:

MrZero said:

I didn't think this coaster was very re-ridable and it may be that KD was finding that to be the case. I find this to be good news and would look forward to riding it in the future. Still not liking the OTSR's on a coaster that doesn't go upside down.

Hmmm... but you like OTSR's on a coaster that does go upside down? Either way, coasters really don't need them, with properly designed and used lap restraints.

Like would be a strong word. I feel they give people more of a sense of perceived safety on a coaster with inversions. It may not be the best coaster in the world but I always appreciate a ride on Sooperdooperlooper with it's simple lap bar.

Oh, Kinematic Equations, how I love you. They make life so much easier.

Having ridden I305 numerous times on my visit, I have mixed feelings about adding a trim. I think most coaster enthusiasts are aware that if you simply tense the muscles in your legs and butt you can maintain blood flow in your upper body thus minimizing the gray-out experience. I don't know how you would communicate that to the general public and if you did I suspect it would significantly increase your liability in any lawsuits brought against the park related to the ride.

I think the bigger issue for me is that trims on magnetically braked coasters can't be adjusted. They are fixed and always on, thus if the park were holding an event for coaster enthusiasts are the weather was unseasonable cold or windy and wanted the train to run full-speed there is no way to untrim the ride; the only option to do that would be to take out a section of track and replace with hydralically activated fins like on the brake run or holding brakes. Cedar Fair is not going to spend the money to do that. On the plus side, if the beginning speed is reduced maybe a section of trims in the camelback section can be removed which would be a good thing in my book. They were a little strong in my opinion and removing a section might create an overall better ride experience possibly.

No matter what, it is still an incredible aggressive ride as it should remain...isn't that the point of building a 300ft NASCAR themed ride?!

Yet another Intamin blunder. At least they fix their many problems quickly.

I know that all the magnetic trims we've seen so far are permanent and fixed, but why couldn't they make a magnetic trim retractable? It doesn't even need an elaborate hydraulic system, it could be moved in or out of place with a simple hand crank. Put the trim where you want in, and run a cable down to ground level. That way all someone has to do is walk to the base of the hill, and turn a crank.

I think expense in any retractable case is the modification of the track, not the mechanical system. In fact, with this new fangled track style, they're at a serious disadvantage because it's not just a box truss you hollow out and put stuff in.

Ah yes, I should have looked at the photos first. I see that the brake fins are under the train and mounted to the track as in TTD, and not the sides of the train like their other hypers and mega-lites.

Aaahh, I wasn't even thinking about the new track design which does pose a problem as well.

I guess this is another coaster some of us can say "I remember when..." as we suffer through another neutering.

Actually, adjustable magnetic trims have already been done, but it requires putting the magnets on the track and the fins on the train.

Premier did it for the ******* *** Stunt Track coasters. The idea is that when you put the magnets opposite each other, you can affect the field strength with the relative position of the poles. Position the poles opposite one another and they add up to a stronger field. Shift one of the magnets slightly and the fields cancel each other out, resulting in a much weaker net field for the braking fin to pass through.

Instead of an actuator that has to drop the caliper completely clear of the fin, it just shifts one side of the caliper an inch or two.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The Phantom's Revenge works that way, too. The magnets can drop on the transfer table to affect the pull on the trains.

Oh, really? Is that new for this season? That would certainly make it possible to bring trains into the station faster, which would help capacity in the unlikely event the ride is actually running both trains...

(okay, I know that's a cheap shot. But why it is that every time I go, Phantom runs one train more than it runs two. It's almost as bad as Dueling Dragons at IOA in that regard...)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

As much as I wish DD ran more trains, I don't think I've ever waited longer than 15 minutes for it.

You're lucky. Probably you have better timing than me. What I noticed on less busy days (as if I am down there all the time...) they would tend to run a single pair of trains until the station backed up to about a 20 minute wait. Then they would shut the ride down entirely for a half-hour to add the other pair of trains, and run four trains until the station emptied out again. Then they would shut down for another half-hour and remove two trains, and by the time they got the ride back up, they'd have a long wait built up again. It was bizarre to watch. And I never saw them doing that kind of thing with, say, Hulk.

On my trip last November, they didn't pull the on-and-off dance because they only had one pair of trains in operating condition, and they were only operating the ride for half days anyway, probably because of the construction. I think in the week I was there, Dueling Dragons had more downtime than Rip Ride Rockit, but much higher capacity when it was (they were?) operating.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.