How should Six Flags Darien Lake Improve?
If I wanted to improve (the bottom line, that is), I'd work at really making this a destination park.
More concerts. Concert-related perks for those staying on the property.
Expand the waterpark and separate it a bit from the dry side, while keeping it a single admission for both.
Build a high-caliber golf course by or near the resort.
Make it an actual destination for a weekend, or a few days of vacation time. Expand the definition of amusement, like Disney has done in Orlando.
The last thing I'd do is add rides to the dry side of the park. That part's already doing an okay business.
It attracts people from both Syracuse and Buffalo, meaning it can definately generate crowds but not like SFGam or SFgadv.
However, Paramounts Canadas Wonderland is pulling alot of crowds from Buffalo and Niagara Falls area so SFDL needs to catch up. Also I'm sure people would be willing to drive to CP or Geauga Lake from those areas.
Impulse-ive said:
I think that "evolution" in thinking comes along with visiting more parks and not having as many new parks to visit with new-to-you stuff. I'm notcing that as I make my plans for next year, I'm much more interested in parks that have a great overall impression from TRs and such than places that are JUST great coasters. Great coasters certainly are the #1 deciding factor on yay or nay to a park, but they're not the only consideration.
I think you're absolutely right. When we first started this whole thing, it was about hitting the coasters that we had wanted to see/ride.
Now that I can honestly say I've hit many (most?) of the coasters I've wanted to ride, new trips are planned around areas or parks of interest. In the event a tiebreaker is needed, coaster line-up comes into play. We will plan trips around new coasters of interest.
As far as SFDL specifically, our visit was pleasant enough. Staff seemed average, I liked the park itself. Predator was closed and S:ROS was down for part of the day, but being as I wasn't just there to ride, it wasn't an issue. I'd certainly stop by again if heading that direction for some reason, but probably wouldn't make the drive from Pittsburgh for SFDL alone - for example, if one of the park's up that way got something new that we wanted to check out, I'd definitely slip a stop at SFDL in the mix.
Ride of Steel said:
Six Flags attracts teens and teens drink Mountain Dew so why did they make the switch to Coke?
Every six flags park made the switch last year (if they wern't coke already) due to a deal they made with them.
As for everything else you said, I would disagree with a small bit of it (mainly the multiple trains when there really is nobody there anymore =P); but I feel it needs alot of work. Still one of the best landscaped, though.
????????? said:
Also, the ride was not memorable even in it's first season.
Well, i don't know about THAT. I do know the line was around every single railing, and that ACE rated it in the top 10 coasters in the US (... world?) -- I never got to ride it *that* early on, however.
-- alan j *** Edited 8/30/2005 6:05:12 PM UTC by SFDL_Dude*** *** Edited 8/30/2005 6:05:27 PM UTC by SFDL_Dude***
I still don't get the individuals who think Darien Lake has enough dry rides...
You don't get it. The park is all about rides. There are really no attractions there... There's no theming or stuff to do like The Great Escape (a park in the same state, by same company, similar in size)... so rides is all they have to rely on, and most of their flats are all 80's... they have 2 clones, 1 signature that's not-so-great anymore, and 1 arrow classic.
They don't have a "family" coaster that kids can graduate to before hitting the big-boy coasters, and don't have any modern smooth looper like a Beemer.
Not to mention more modern Huss, Mondial, or Zamperla rides. Only one is Twister which is nice... but it kind of leaves you in a state of disappointment to see that this is the only modern ride and it's popular enoguh to give SFDL the hint to add some more like it, as the peeps dig it.
Why not kill 2 birds with one stone...
-- Improve the resort by making it a destination with other stuff to do.
-- Also expand for the regional peeps who are getting sick & tired of the same thing while other parks surrounding the area from every direction are getting new things (and they're mainly indie parks!).
-- Just remember... PCW is the only game in town... so Six Flags Darien Lake is the nearest competition, and Six Flags is not doing a good job to get guests from Toronto & surrounding area down to Darien Lake, as PCW keeps getting a major ride each year while SFDL just gets a decent concert.
Ride of Steel said:
Wow I never knew that about Predator. Was it bumpy back then? Do you mean that was the first ride with individual restraints or just racheting lapbars? What did woodies use before that?
It was one of the first. The Texas Giant, Predator, Thunder Run and Georgia Cyclone all opened in 1990 with springless ratcheting lapbars that dropped in your lap as soon as the lapbars were released. Of those four the Giant probably opened first. Prior to 1990, PTC (and NAD) trains featured a single lapbar that only had two locked positions--up or down. You can still find these lapbars out there on trains such as the Phoenix, Cornball Express and Hoosier Hurricane. Some of you like to call them "buzz bars", although they don't all necessarily buzz.
Also of note: Several Dinn & Summers coasters had trailered PTC trains, but every other one of them had the trains changed. For some strange reason, Predator is the only coaster that still runs trailered PTCs.
*** Edited 8/30/2005 7:28:19 PM UTC by Jeffrey Seifert***
You can check out my trip report from yesterday, and it'll tell you just whats going on at SFDL...it's just not run well.
If we're talking about improving the overall park, I don't think a new coaster is really the answer. Everyone say's B&M this, B&M that. I don't think thats what they need right now. SFDL needs to improve the rides they have. A signifigant investment is needed on Predator, as us Coaster Enthus's aren't the only ones complaining about how rough it is. It needs to be re-tracked, and the trains need to be changed.
Boomerang is a very nice set up and one that can only run one train.
Every other coaster in the park should be running at least two trains at all times, they all have the ability. Long lines are not something to brag about anymore. We need to move the people through the line as quickly as possible. Good experiences bring back guests, not waiting in line for an hour to ride a 2 minute coaster.
The only real thing that SFDL needs is to improve the flat rides. Hell add a giant drop tower. Or maybe something like MAXair, that would cost less than a brand new B&M coaster.
I may be in the minority here, but i don't want a reject coaster from another Six Flags park.
I know a lot of people on here really enjoy coasters, and new coaster construction, but SFDL has "good" coasters, with bad problems. On the other hand they have bad flats, with bad problems.
Investing money in changing the operations of the park, and maybe a couple of new flats could really attract a lot of guests.
BUT!!!!
Who at SFI's managment missed the memo on money making waterparks. A Tornado will not solve the crappy waterpark problem overnight, and it most certainly does not help with waterpark capacity. Also why isn't hook's lagoon connected to the wave pool? I must be a moron to think that people should be able to move from one to the other without having to walk that extra 1000 feet around the small incline?
New bodyslides, maybe some new raft slides...and for god sakes a decent lazy river have got to be worth the investment.
What I wouldn't do to have the money and invest in this park...it could be a real gem, but we all have to sit here and watch it rot away slowly...
...how a few of us tried to piss & moan a few years ago about this park & its problems, and basically EVERYONE tried to defend the park, saying it's a great little gem that's much better than over half the other Six Flags properties
Fast forward a few years later, and now I don't see too many defenders of the park anymore.
Maybe everyone is starting to realize what we have known all along.
Ride of Steel said:
Rollergator, what exactly did you put on the customer comment card? I'll have to fill out one of those!
Heck if I know anymore, LOL....something about it being nice of them to let us know that Supes was NOT operating for the day, and that it *woulda been nice* to know that Viper was similarly non-operational. Mighta mentioned that running ONE train on the only other steel coaster CAPABLE of running two trains (and thereby letting the line grow to about an hour) was really not quite...acceptable. Add in that Boomerang opened late, and what HAVE you got? Not much! ;)
I wouldn't bother filling one out if I were you, they obviously don't READ the comment cards, and *certainly* don't give a rat's backside WHAT we think of the park....well, I do live in FL after all...I even joked with Tina about asking for our parking fee back, it was atrocious!
How should Darien Lake improve? Fire the management team...the whole bunch! The more I talked with the employees, the more certain I became. No one in charge of that place knows, or cares, what it takes to make people want to come back.
As always, just my impression. Next time I'm in the area, I'll spend a day at MFI, and I'll spend a day at SeaBreeze...and I'll probably go back to PCW (even without a Paramount SP). But SFDL, I'm just going for the Viper credit, a couple laps on Supes, and I am OUT of there...
P.S. Should also mention that SFGE (on a later trip) impressed me as being "similar" in a lot of ways. To be sure, there are LOADS of differences....the number one difference, though: I felt like at SFGE they were happy that I'd come to their park....at SFDL, I felt more like a nuisance...
*** Edited 8/30/2005 7:55:40 PM UTC by rollergator***
Boomerang is closed because they are waiting for a part from Vekoma, and according to the lady it is a mechanical problem not a problem where they are too lazy to staff it. Hopefully it will open soon.
Grizzly Run is closed for no particular reason.
All tickets are $23.99 now and I believe they go down to $15.99 after Labor Day.
Just FYI - SpecialEd and I are going on a trip in about 2 weeks just for SFDL (from Pittsburgh). Will probably add in a Waldameer stop and may stay a night up in the area and try and pick up Knoebels but for the most part, it's just for DL!
-Definitely paint SRoS. It is the PREMIER attraction, front and center when you come up to the park on 77... And it's PINK?? I like the idea of Superman theme music in the station, too.
-Some say to retrack Predator. I say tear it down. It's garbage. The amount of retracking required makes it a bad investment. And besides, isn't it kind of assinine to have the only 2 nonlooping coasters right on top of each other? Demolish it, burn it, whatever... Then build a REAL woodie ala Hades out back by the GoKart track. It'll look better there anyway, with the trees and whatnot.
-Someone said they don't want old SF reject coasters. I disagree. Send us the Anton Shuttle Loop rotting outside SFMW, and send us Flashback that's rotting inside SFMM. Get them up to par, paint them up nice, rework the trains on Flashback, maybe a little theme, and as far as 85% of the population know, SFDL just got 2 new coasters with very little investment.
-There has been rumor for a while that SFDL was going to build a PGA grade golf course on part of its 1000 acres. I say go for it. Perhaps across the road? It makes that hotel a lot easier to fill up if Dad has something to really do for himself...
-FrightFest is a joke! Half the park is closed, there's one haunted house, and the theming is slim to none. Other parks have shown that if done right, Halloween festivities can be a huge money maker. Come on SF, you showed with SFWoA that you could make this work!
-Flat (noncoaster) rides are missing... S&S combo tower (although Marineland just built one down the street), Huss Giant Frisbee, etc... Easy stuff to do, here... Hey, even some classic rides can be fun if done right. Enclose the Scrambler they already have, and do a light & sound show inside.
-Expand the kids area and have the LooneyTunes characters walk through. Kids love that stuff...
-And even though I could care less personally, the waterpark needs to be rebuilt to its "glory days" as Barracuda Bay. They've gotten rid of so many slides, its ridiculous.
-***Crack Dream Alert***Here's what I'd LOVE to see in the park, but it's not realistic at all... Rework SRoS to get rid of those straight sections. Move the first helix inward and have the second hill drop and bank right into it instead of that little incline, then you'd get rid of that straight section in front of the killer third hill. Better yet, get rid of that first helix altogether and make it an overbanked turn that drops into an underground tunnel then up and into the hill... An Intamin Impulse ala Wicked Twister would be great, it's such an underrated ride at CP. Sell the Boomerang and import one of the 3 DejaVus and put it in the same location. A Hades-like coaster in the back of the park. I don't really dislike Mind Eraser, but how much better would a Silver Bullet or even a BTR clone be? And the only B&M Standup that EVERYONE seems to like is Riddler's Revenge... Sold, we'll take a clone. It would probably be a relatively cheap sell, seeing as B&M hasn't sold a Standup in a while, and it's already been designed. Set it beside the remodeled SRoS where Predator stands now, with our new BTR and Flashback repainted and themed as Batmobile, and you've got yourself an awesome Gotham City.
I could go on and on, but I won't bore you any longer... *** Edited 8/30/2005 8:43:39 PM UTC by ShaneDenmark***
But then again, what do I know?
I wish that the turnaround was like Goliath at SF Holland, or should I say...Walibi World...(laughs to self).
"I work fulltime at Walibi World"
...wow...
Impulse-ive said:
Just FYI - SpecialEd and I are going on a trip in about 2 weeks just for SFDL (from Pittsburgh). Will probably add in a Waldameer stop and may stay a night up in the area and try and pick up Knoebels but for the most part, it's just for DL!
Hey Waldameer closes Labor Day. It will not be open in 2 weeks.
Pittsburgh, City of Champions!
Steelers + Penguins
2009 What a great year!
My Ex and I (he wasn't my ex at the time) went to SFDL several times last year and found most ride ops to be quite pleasant- those that feel otherwise should consider the fact that the park is in the middle of nowhere and they don't have that many people to choose from. However I will say this: we did have a major issue with an Op on Sleigh Ride and Guest "Services" was of no help at all and we asked for an adress for their Corporate Office and they said they didn't have it.
RIDES
Yes...either retrack or demolish Pred! My Ex actually got a bruise from it! Another girl on our train had the same thing happen! Speaking of being in the middle of nowhere...why do they have one of the tallest wheels? And more importantly why have they let all the lights burn out.
Those who keep trying to say "build a coaster by the go-kart track" should keep in mind that is next to the camping area.
Either bring in more big name concerts or get rid of that Ampitheatre! That would be a great site for something new!
Rework Darien Square and add some rides back there to alleviate the annoying "H" layout of the park.
Someone said something about it being a bad idea to put shipwreck falls where it is- could be used for Water Park expansion- hmmm...HEY! It replaced several waterslides.
As far as enclosing the Scrambler- Sea Breeze has one of those 1 hour North.
And yes I find it odd that in the past 6 years both Fantasy Island & Sea Breeze (both tiny but fun indy parks) have added a total of three coasters vs. SFDL's 1! They have also both added several new flats- while SFDL hasn't added much beyond the Top Spin. I am 31 years old and I remember not being tall enough to ride some of the flat rides that are STILL THERE!
I do like Thunder Run (I refuse to call it the Poland Springs Plunge) with its 2 drops and the tunnel- but add some theming (same for Grizzly).
BTW it is interesting that I tried starting an identical post to this one a year or two ago under my original screen name & it was closed & locked by Jeff.
A final note: SFDL spends WAY to much money moving crap around! Shipwreck replaced part of the waterpark, the waterpark expansion replaced kiddieland, kiddieland replaced the mini-put course, that was moved under Viper- any why did you ditch Crazy Quilt and keep Sea Storm?!
I could never love an Arrow!
Thunder Run wasn't called Thunder Run it was Thunder Rapids.
Grizzly Run is excellent and has decent theming.
CP's Campground is right by Mean Streak, would a B&M be much worse if they fill it with sand?
My appologies for getting Run and Rapids backwards between Thunder and Grizzly.
I haven't been on Grizzly since I worked at the park in '95 so if they've added theming...great! Although I've been a fan of these rides which pass nothing but huge sections of nothingness and provide no thrill other than to soak you in less than creative ways. Compared to the rapids ride at PCW in MY opinion Grizzly is very lacking in scenery- the PCW ride has rock cliffs and a tunnel and runs through thick vegitation.
BTW did anyone know that when Viper opened it ran 3 trains?!
I could never love an Arrow!
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