Holiwood Nights 5/23-24/08

Here's neat links to the 4 of 5 pages recovered via Google's cache courtesy of Helper. Any ideas on the best method of restoring/preserving the info?

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3 (not found...yet)

Page 4

Page 5

I'm curious as to who "Helper" is, but thanks for "Helping" :)

I don't really feel like re-posting anything so hopefully what needed to be said was said by all and it was read by who needs to read it.

I would cut and paste the contents into a thread. When google re-crawls, I think the cache will go poof.

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CPLady said:
I'm a fast learner, even if I am an old fart. I now know not to drink just before an event, and my feet will remain flat on the floor of the train. Neither is a difficult rule for me to follow.

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I don't understand most of your reasoning. People were pulled aside to blow, and blew a .00. That means whoever decided they "smelled" of alcohol was wrong and of no proper qualification to make such judgment calls. It's potentially embarrassing to have to blow in a breathalyzer.......

Again the question begs, what right does HW or any other park have to ask such a thing of you? Sure, they CAN do whatever they want, and we can certainly voice our opinions....

I'm wholeheartedly glad you plan to keep your feet on the floor. However, I feel you didn't read anything about that or at least well enough to fully understand. One person here reported there were CITED for having their feet flat on the floor, but too far back. It's a somewhat natural sitting position a lot of people take when sitting down. Essentially having your legs at an acute angle. The person was asked to move his feet forward and he complied completely with the request. Upon arriving back in the station he was met with a paper to sign stating he was guilty of some offense.

He complied, and very reasonably just put his feet back naturally when sitting down. That hardly points to him being guilty of trying to circumvent the safety restraints.

I heard another story very similar BTW.

So it's good you know you can learn to follow rules.... Unfortunately for you, it seems like that's not going to be good enough. Hope you know exactly what position relative to the seat your feet are supposed to be in... that way in addition to being flat on the floor they are far enough forward...

Maybe HW should print charts, or put stickers on the floors of trains as to avoid any further confusion. Or at least define acceptable angles (ie: 45+?) for proper sitting. What to do, though, about folks who are too tall and having trouble unless their legs are "back"? *** Edited 6/7/2008 3:03:15 PM UTC by eric.walton***

I certainly read every single post in the thread. And I agree that the foot thing was a bit over the top since he complied, but he did admit his feet were back and his heels up even if he didn't realize that was a no no. (Too bad you can't go back and read his post). Those who blew a .00 were not kicked out, nor were they asked to sign a citation, even if they feel they were wrongly pulled aside.

BUT everyone who is complaining has forgotten how devastating that death was to the park. I was there. And I know every single person who was there was just as devastated.

No matter how we feel about the "wrongness" of what went on, no matter they didn't enforce the same rules for the GP during the day, I still understand why HW was being so fanatical with the enthusiast group and I don't blame them one bit. They were playing it extra safe so we could continue to have these events.

The only thing I can really find fault with it is the stricter rules apparently were not made clear enough, either on the flyer or during the initial safety instructions during the dinner.

Considering there were 500 plus people there, the number who were actually pulled aside, and those who didn't even realize these things had happened, it doesn't appear to me it was widespread.

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Brian Noble said:
I would cut and paste the contents into a thread. When google re-crawls, I think the cache will go poof.

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I have the 4 pages we recovered saved.

Now everyone just has to petition Jeff to recreate (or let me recreate) them here on Buzz. :)

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eric.walton said:

Again the question begs, what right does HW or any other park have to ask such a thing of you? Sure, they CAN do whatever they want, and we can certainly voice our opinions....

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I guess the answer would be that this was an afterhours event closed to the general public. You had to be a member of a coasterclub to participate. I would say this makes it a totally different situation from a normal operating day.

I was there with 5 other people and 4 of them were in the age range of 8-16. Never once were we cautioned for anything and nobody in my group seen anything. We were there until closing both nights. Does this make you comment false? No, but if people are going to say things happened to them I am going to point out nothing happened to us.

I hope that since I do not post here much, if at all, that that does not make my post invalid like you indicated earlier to someone. *** Edited 6/7/2008 11:26:04 PM UTC by Coaster_Family***

I would just keep an eye out for a lifetime supply of free sunscreen being delivered to the Gonch domicile. :)

And one custom-ordered waterless urinal.

The delete button isn't that close. Shame on you, Gonch!

But yeah, the newer version of the forum app, running on PointBuzz, doesn't delete anything permanently. Even more fun, us mods see the deleted stuff inline with the live stuff. So when someone annoyingly deletes their post and rewrites it four times, we see it.

Back to your regularly scheduled nonsense.

-Jeff, who thinks double signing is stupid and gimmicky.

"So when someone annoyingly deletes their post and rewrites it four times, we see it."

Oops, sorry. :( ;)

They're pretty damn close - close enough that a minor shift in mouse position gets me from one to the other.

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CPLady wrote: BUT everyone who is complaining has forgotten how devastating that death was to the park. I was there. And I know every single person who was there was just as devastated.

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I don't think it is fair to assume that those who are taking issues with HW's behavior have forgotten anything. It's not unlike those who take issue with the government's "security" measures since 9/11 still remember the devastation of that event; they just know that one does not inform the other.

Nothing HW does is going to change what happened in 2003.

We aren't really talking about HW just taking necessary measures to ensure safety. Their extreme caution has started to border the line of rationality.

I attended the Fall Affair last September and was really unnerved by the watchful eyes of management during our ERT and let's not forget the picture taking of every lap restraint being checked.

It's not about boycotting. It's about the fact that I have to make choices about the parks I'm willing to attend each year and I would rather choose a park where I am not uncomfortable.

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RatherGoodBear said:
I would just keep an eye out for a lifetime supply of free sunscreen being delivered to the Gonch domicile.

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Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? ;)

So HW has a death in 2003 and everything they do is justifiable?

They aren't the only park to experience a death. Some of you act like HW is god like and since a death happened there, they can act in ways they see fit and all is good at "Leave it to Beaver World"

The female that passed on Raven was going to be a part of the enthusiast event. She did this during normal operating hours but She made a foolish decision that cost her life.

It makes me sick that people think they can compromise the restraints on coasters. I or anyone that attended the recent event should not have to be ridiculed because of a moronic decision 5 years ago.

Common sense needs to be played out here. If blatant unsafe actions happen? YOU ARE GONE.

If you act beligerant or appear drunk? YOU ARE GONE.

Smelling like alcohol or doing something like not having your feet flat on the floor or turning your head? You don't get booted.

Most parks follow this rule.

I'm a little late coming to this topic, but after talking to a fellow enthusiast (Who shall remain nameless) at Coastermania yesterday, I decided I needed to read this thread. This person I know also had to sign something for (if I remember correctly) unbuckling the seatbelt while sitting in the final break block. However, I did not witness the situation and don't have much of an opinion on it. However, this person is well respected and certainly not the type to screw around. I would not have even know about any of this happening to anyone if it were not for that one friend telling me what happened to them.

The only thing of the whole night that I remember was I thought I saw someone on the front of Voyage during ERT holding a cell phone. I saw the glow of an LCD. I was near the back of the train and they were near the front of the train. As we pulled into the brake run where we had stabalized and there was more light, I could clearly see that it was just a watch. Damn bright lcd for a watch if you ask me.

Though I think the number of people sited were certainly in the minority, I too would be curious to see what the park had to say in response to this thread. This is the only event that's this far away that I have gone to more than once. I've been to all of the HWN's. I was not in any clubs or on the forums when the SRM incedent occured. I can only imagine the shock and horror that everyone must have felt when they found out later that day. I don't blame HW for trying to be as safe as they want to be. However, if they are going to be this strict in the future, I would hope this is somehow addressed better so that everyone is aware of how to properly behave during our ERT sessions.

Jason:

Your friend did something that I have been doing for years. When you are done with the ride and the train is pulling into the station, you take your seatbelt off.

I almost got tossed in 06 at HWN for doing this. No other park cares if you unbuckle your belt if the ride is done. By doing this, you aren't being unsafe, compromising the restraints, or cheating any system.

I never understood the one click crap, or cheating the system to get more airtime. I am actually amazed that HW allowed the one click crap back in the day.

They go from allowing unsafe activity to being just plain ridiculous. Hey HW? Why don't you just play by the standard industry rules and put people in coaster seats safely from the start?

Even the big boys (SF, CF, Paramount) never allowed one click crap. *** Edited 6/8/2008 7:33:49 AM UTC by Chitown***

And thanks to Gonch, I had to vent this to a whole new level. :)

What is caring me from this policy I read about in this thread is thee 0.00 Alcohol Level Rule. What happens if I use instant hand sanitizer, That stuff is proven to bring Blood Alcohol Level up slightly per a source here: http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/6578/1/322 . I am wondering how many people got booted for this? I do not think Holiday World does use this in their bathrooms or sell them at the park. But some people do carry it with them in case the bathrooms don't have soap or they simply need them outside. The alcohol in that sanitizer does go into your blood stream in small quantities but it would exceed the Zero Tolerance Limit at HW. If HW does indeed sell this they should pull it from the selves in the vicinity of the coaster events, to try to prevent false positives on this test, and let them know that any recent use of Alcohol Products including but not limited to, Hand Sanitizer, Cough Syrup, Certain Underarm Deodorants, and other personal products that contain alcohol should not be used in the vicinity of the event as this will increase your blood alcohol level to beyond our Zero Tolerance Policy.

This is my concern for the Breathalyzer Tests they had and their 0.00 tolerance.

To eleviate your concerns about hand sanitizer...it must be ingested and that only raises the alcohol level of small children. So if you need a fix, rubbing hand sanitizer on your hands won't work nor will it get you ejected from Holiday World. ; )