Hersheypark closing Wildcat, last rides July 31

super7* remarked:

The last bunny hills of SV are another great example of trying to cram too much in. 1 or 2 smooth flowing airtime hills would have been better than all those janky riding little hills. Is it a poor attempt to advertise more airtime?

I think it was an attempt to out-Magnum Magnum XL-200.. In fact, some enthusiast rode both rides with a data logger and discovered that Magnum actually produced stronger -Gz forces than Steel Vengeance. I can’t verify that, and I don’t know how the transducer was “mounted” (I suspect it was a wristwatch), but I can believe that assessment just because of the difference between the trains. In the Arrow train you are loosely coupled to the seat (even if you pull the belt tight) which means some of that force is taken up with separating you from the seat and pulling the bar out to its previous detent. The timing, onset, and decay of the -Gz forces on Magnum are surprisingly well controlled, probably because of the gap between the upstop and the bottom of the rail. The loose coupling between both the train and the track and between you and the seat means that final contact with the lap bar happens relatively late in the -Gz event and is both shorter and more gentle than the magnitude of the force would suggest. Meanwhile over on Steel Vengeance all the tolerances are tighter, and there is no delay while you and the train separately go ballistic. Instead the train immediately follows that lower path, and you smash instantly into that lap bar and bear the brunt of the entire -Gz event, not just the tail end of it.

What surprises me is that while I prefer Magnum to the kinder, gentler, more refined Steel Force, it seems the same people who prefer Steel Force for precisely the same reason also prefer Steel Vengeance even though it is far more violent, and much less “refined” for lack of a better term, than Magnum.

Or maybe it’s just because it’s fashionable to dislike Magnum.

—Dave Althoff, Jr.

Schwarzkopf76:

I've been on a few RMCs and find them overwhelmingly... too fast (!?)/snappy and too tight. I'm not good with that super-tight-pinned-in feeling, the occasional ball-slap, and trapped legs.

I LOVE X2 and Voyage, so I'm good with intense rides. RMCs are new type of intensity; turn up the forces way up AND make the seats and restraints super-tight.

Same here... X2, Voyage, I305, old school B&M inverts and other very intense rides I'm perfectly fine with. X2 is top 3 steel for me, and that ride has intensity beyond any RMC I've ridden IMO. It just does it differently.

RMC's are just on a different level of uncomfortableness though. Wish I could like them more than I do, because generally the layouts are pretty great outside of the overuse of barrel rolls and things getting a bit repetitive in the second half of the rides. I get excited to ride them and overall, they are good rides and indeed offer something different to most parks lineups. The only ride worse than any RMC may be Lightning Run at Kentucky Kingdom for comfort. Wow, that was a brutal one. (Again, realize I am 6'5" so my body don't fit in these things like most people!).

At the end of the day, I think my real issue with RMC design is it's not so much the strength of the negative G, but the jerk. It's the quick positive-to-negative-to-positive occurring in such a tiny duration of time over and over and over again. Long, sustained negative G at the same level would be far more enjoyable. Expedition GeForce at Holiday Park for example had some of the strongest airtime I can recall outside of RMC... But the airtime was longer, more sustained and just far more enjoyable (yet still bruised my lap after those rides!). So same abuse, but a kinder more enjoyable abuse. If they simply tamed the jerk a bit, that would be a big help. Outside of that, I really do love the quick direction changes and overall intensity of the rides.

I don't think your explanation about Magnum's forces works out, Dave. I suspect the lack of "tightness" is a rounding error in the overall "feeling" of forces on the ride. At the end of the day, what will matter is the shape of the hills relative to the speed at which the train enters them. Modern rides tend to have longer, parabolic curves, which will sustain and perhaps distribute G-forces for longer periods of time than an old Arrow, which tends to have abrupt, shorter hills. If the forces are greater, that's why. It will also be vastly different between the front and back of the train, as we all know from experience.

Hence the ending hills on Phantom's Revenge which I am pretty sure are all taken a lot faster than the designer was expecting!

I'd love to see Gz plots of the final hills on Magnum and Steel Vengeance side by side. Preferably plots based on the ASTM F2137 "SARC" test. Not so much because I am a fan of that test, but because it is a standardized testing method with the accelerometer in a defined location and rigidly coupled to the seat. Even better I'd love to see a similar test run with a more realistic human analog, with the accelerometer loosely coupled to the seat in the same way a rider is. I don't know if any of the testing companies even do that kind of test, particularly since F2137 became a 'thing'.

The thing I notice about Magnum is the way that the airtime seems to be achieved. It starts with a ballistic free-float which spikes suddenly when the wheel hits the rail...mind you the weightlessness starts before the crest of the hill, while that spike happens when the wheel hits the crest. That's a very quick impulse (I wonder if it even meets the 200msec. threshold to be considered in the force limit standards in F2291-20:7), and that's what actively throws you into the restraint. The shape of that hill, though, especially the 2nd and 3rd hills, more so than the return hills, seems to let up on the -Gz and drop back closer to zero until you get to the pull-out at the bottom of the hill. And yes, that's all about the track profile. The result is that the 'throw' actually stops short so you can float down the other side of the hill.

B&M do much the same thing, but the combination of their tighter profile tolerances and the zero-shock wheel assemblies mean you get all that delightful float, but they lack that little kick to actually get you into the air. Ride Centerline (RMC) on the other hand seem to (I don't really know; I'm crammed in too qnza tight to tell) prefer to take the whole hill below the ballistic path...in other words, go -Gz and stay there, perhaps at a less-negative force than Magnum's peak force, but for far longer instead of flirting with zero. Then minimize that allowable 133 msec. transition time (F2291-20:7.1.7.2) for the hard landing on that ball-buster at the front of the seat. I'm gonna call that a Ride Centerline thing because it's on Lightning Run as well. Man, I wish Chance had gone back to the Morgan designs (maybe even hire Dynamic Designs to do it...) for that one!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Hoping it's an RMC conversion. The layout would be even more boring if it were smooth.

I do agree with those who think SV should have ended with 2 bigger Intamin-type ejector hills.

super7*:

The last bunny hills of SV are another great example of trying to cram too much in. 1 or 2 smooth flowing airtime hills would have been better than all those janky riding little hills. Is it a poor attempt to advertise more airtime?

It's funny, because this is exactly one of the reasons I love SV. I feel like they didn't waste an inch of track, and it's supposed to literally take your breath away and leaving you thinking "what the hell was that?" when you are done. Much like the little hop before the chain, and right after the first drop....it's like they purposely refused to offer any relief in the ride, and I love it. Millennium is right down the trail...

It just doesn't let up, aside from the short breather you get at the MCBR.

And to what RCMAC said awhile ago, I like the fact that RMC didn't completely re-do the layout of Mean Streak. They could have chosen to not do what I call the "Return of the Jedi Trench Run" in the second half, but they kept the run through the structure, only with awesomeness instead of a snooze-fest.

All that said, I've never ridden Wildcat, so I will leave those opinions to everyone else.

Again, my RMC experience is severely limited, but I feel like they address all the typical enthusiast complaints about “forceless” coasters and “boring” layouts and assault them with everything a thrill seeker could ask for. Now it’s too much, apparently.

Steel Vengeance was the first coaster since X2 (and before that X-Flight at Geauga Lake, my first flyer), that genuinely made me go "Holy S**t!! What did I just do?!" That first ride on Steel Vengeance (which was my first on an RMC) gave me all of the thrill and excitement that I assume non enthusiasts get out of coasters.

Since then I have added Iron Gwazi and Twisted Timbers to my RMC track record. All three are different, do different things in different ways, and are three of the best rides I have ridden. I can't say I have ever gotten off any of those rides without almost the entire train erupting in cheers and applause (save for the lady that ran out of the Iron Gwazi train and barfed her guts out over the exit stairs, I doubt she enjoyed it as much as the rest of us). I can't say I ever saw guest reactions like that on Mean Streak, Hurler, or OG Gwazi.

Sure, as more parks get them more of them will be similar and remind us of others. But that didn't stop every park from getting a B&M floorless, standup or invert with pretty much the same layout as all the others in the 90s. Or half the Cedar Fair parks trying to recreate Magnum with Morgan hypers in the early 90s. I'm all for these RMC conversions, especially when I can't think of a situation where they have replaced anything other than a mediocre to downright bad wooden coaster.

Just enjoyed two front row laps on the Wildcat, and it's running great. I'm happy about the potential of the new ride taking its place, but also sad at the same time. Being my home park this coaster is what got me to start buying season passes to Hersheypark every year.

The growth over the next 4 years after brought in The Great Bear, The Wild Mouse, and Lightning Racer which signified Hersheypark as a major Amusement park.

BrettV:

Steel Vengeance was the first coaster since X2 (and before that X-Flight at Geauga Lake, my first flyer), that genuinely made me go "Holy S**t!! What did I just do?!"

I giggled like a school girl from the first drop to the brake run. I haven’t had many coaster experiences like that in my life. The other first rides I can think of that compare are Millennium Force, Superman at SFNE, Leviathan, and Velocicoaster.

I know exactly what you mean. In the countless coaster rides and park trips I have been on in the last 30 or so years since I was a kid, there are probably 10 or so experiences that are burned in my brain as defining moments of this hobby. My first ride on Steel Vengeance was absolutely one of them.

You can count me as another person who really, really, really likes the RMC rides - but I also feel like there are times where the orchestration of elements is a little too tight and chaotic to feel 100% pleasurable. I have not yet ridden SV yet but I watch the POVs and worry that I'd like the finale better with 80% of the elements spread out over the same amount of track, perhaps.

Also note that my favorite steel coasters ever are Magnum, MF, and Phantom's Revenge. I clearly get a kick out of a steel coaster that has a strong sense of drama and narrative in the layout. I don't know if the more recent RMCs have that outside of "prepare to get thrown around like a rag doll," which admittedly does have its time and place.

matt.:

I also feel like there are times where the orchestration of elements is a little too tight and chaotic to feel 100% pleasurable

I think I'd probably like most RMCs based on my affinity for Intamins like Skyrush, I305 and El Toro. I dig getting tossed around violently and unpredictably I guess.

I think one of the features that sets RMC coasters apart are the trains without a traditional lap bar. The thing that staples you in isn’t suitable for a hand hold and the grips on the arms present an unusual and I feel awkward way to hold on. I’m one that prefers not to hold his arms high in the air, but on the RMC trains I may as well go ahead.
Anyway, that’s also the thing that likely contributes to the rag-doll effect. A more traditional lap bar would give me more leverage for a good brace and better control over what happens to me. The trade off to the current style is a wilder and I dare say scarier experience. I’ve had that feeling on every RMC coaster I've ridden.

Just remembered another one. My first ride on Mystic Timbers was at night. Even my wife was hooting and hollering on that first ride.

We had our first night ride on Mystic Timbers this year (partly by accident, due to KI’s horrid Beast nighttime policy), and it was awesome. Mystic Timbers might be a top 10 coaster for me.

Is it horrid? They could shut down the ride at 9:30 every night, but instead they pay to keep the crew for hours after close every night to run the line out so people can get their night ride. I think that's a nice compromise.

Fair, but for a ride whose reputation is largely built on its night rides, it’s become a frustrating exercise in trying to manage the logistics. For a 10 pm close, which is when the fireworks start, the ride shuts down at 9:15. The show lasts for 15 or 20 minutes, and it takes probably another 10-20 minutes to reopen the ride once the show has ended. This adds an extra hour and a half+ to the wait at the end of the day, and it’s just a bit much. I can’t justify that kind of wait, so whether they shut the ride down for the night at 9:30 or reopen it after the show, the effect is the same for me. But I’m aware that I’m being a snob, and plenty of other people manage it, so to each his own.

I get the reason it takes some times to come back up after fireworks due to track checks, etc., to make sure nothing is still a fire risk back there. But if the fireworks are at 10, what is the reason for not running it until, let's say, 9:50?