Help Conneaut open this year.

I believe Three Rivers stadium wasnt still paid off when they built Heinz field.

Small businesses are getting pounded in Pa. with the taxes ect.They would laugh at us if we asked for a new building our business.

*** Edited 5/4/2007 2:12:41 PM UTC by Ex_Westview and KW_worker***

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Toveck said:

The difference is that the arena in Pittsburgh will generate millions of dollars for the local economy, directly from ticket sales, concessions, etc. As well as indirectly from parking, local bars, restaurants and so on.

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You mean just like Conneaut creates traffic that helps local campgrounds, restaurants, custard stands, stores and gas stations?

A new arena in Pittsburgh is going to retain a lot more for the local economy than Conneaut is going to generate for its local economy, but a new arena is going to cost a hell of a lot more than getting Conneaut out of debt. It's all relative. Again, I don't see the difference, unless you take into account what millrace said... in which case Conneaut ends up smelling like roses since it's not exactly privately-owned.

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Rob Ascough said:
You mean just like Conneaut creates traffic that helps local campgrounds, restaurants, custard stands, stores and gas stations?

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That's part of the problem, Conneaut doesn't generate the traffic. If it did, it wouldn't be in the situation that it is in.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see CLP continue on , and I think they can be viable once the old debt is removed/paid off. I just don't think the comparison between the park and Penguins situation is valid.

^^The difference is, people want to go to see a hockey game. If the Pens sold out almost all their games that is about 700,000 as an attendance figure. And that is only for one sport. Other events that go on should easily push the overall attendance figures over 1.5 million for the entire year.

Unfortunately, the majority of people don't seem intrested in CLP anymore. The park has been going through this open/ closed issue for 13 years now. The majority of the people in the area (Erie) actually think it has been closed for years. But when the park has opened, they don't have the advertising dollars to get the word out to everyone.

It is a rather sad story.

As far as tax payers funding sports stadiums, for the most part that does happen. In Cleveland though, Cuyahoga County had a "sin" tax, which was a $.05 tax on every dollar spent on tobacco & alcohol. That tax funded Cleveland Browns Stadium, Jacobs Field, Quicken Loans arena, and I believe, the Great Lakes Science Center & Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame. I am surprised that more counties have not adopted the same idea. *** Edited 5/4/2007 3:58:16 PM UTC by browntggrr***

^^ I don't see how it's not, but I guess we're not going anywhere with this.

*** Edited 5/4/2007 3:58:35 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Another "Love it!" (with bows to Mamoosh and P18)

As of today, they're up to 2,751 (of 60,000) tokens. (source)

3,240 as of Saturday Morning (source)

One of the things i like about CLP and that area is being off the beaten path. Living in the city, working with the public all week long, I need a break. A place like CLP gives just that. No huge crowds, I can walk in/out of the park as i choose to either a near-by hotel or Camperland. I can stroll by the lake at night with my girlfriend and have a beer. (yeah, i'm easily pleased.)It's like Amish Country with a permanant carnival nearby.

F/S, THAT'S what I'm talking about for CLP. They need to convey that image to the public and they will start showing up again!

Tangent: Who on here bought the most tokens so far? I'm buying 10 on Monday.

Woohoo, Penguin fanboys! Is that a first for this site?

First of all, the $190 million the "state" is putting up wasn't supposed to be used to build arenas, etc. The billions in taxes the casinos were going to be paying in taxes was to be going for property tax relief for all Pennsylvanians. 30% was the figure Rendell bandied about in his re-election campaign. For me personally, that's hundreds of dollars every year. And I don't believe this is a "loan" the team or anyone has to pay back-- it's a handout.

As far as all the income the Pens are going to be bringing in-- even if they make the Stanley Cup finals some year, that's at most 55 games-- if every playoff series goes 7 games and they have home ice advantage throughout. If they don't make the playoffs, it's 41 games.

Even getting 20,000 people in the seats (just to make the math easy) gives you attendance of only 1.1 million at most. Dorney, Knoebels, Kennywood and Hersheypark all exceed that number-- and in a much shorter season. And none of them get a dime of state assistance. Spending 300 million to get 1 million in attendance I don't think is a very good ratio.

Although I'm no Pens fan, it's not just their deal that annoys me. PA has spent lots on money over the years on stupid projects in the name of economic development. Many of those have been for things that hardly anybody cared about either.

I don't know what sort of "entity" CLP is considered for revenue and taxation purposes. But if it's allowable, why not look into getting someone to apply for grants under any of the programs the commonwealth offers for economic development.

The local economic development agency always seems to be chirping in about not liking this or that about the park, but have they offered an alternative? If the park is closed, what are they planning to do to provide a use that will make money for the area? Do they have a clue?

You're right, we're not talking loans, we're talking hand-outs with monies that were supposed to be used to help regular people, either via property tax relief or road constrction projects. It's not like states have "sports stadium and arena" accounts that money is drawn from when a privately-owned team suddenly decides that someone else should pay for them to stay in town.

It's the same as you deciding that you want a new house but don't want to pay for it, so you ask your local town to pay for a new one instead. Try that and see how far you get.

The point we're arguing is that sports teams, just like amusement parks, create traffic- or have the potential to create traffic- so there is no difference between handing money to a sports team and a local amusement park.

In case anyone is interested, here's a list of the places that are selling tokens.

Park tokens sold at many locations

05/05/07 —

Tokens to support Conneaut Lake Park are being sold at many locations in Crawford County.

The tokens may be purchased at the following locations: Al’s Melons at 390 Water St., Conneaut Lake, and on the Conneaut Lake Road; Amy Arpin Tanning Salon at 771 Walde Court, Meadville; Ardis Beauty Shop, Water Street, Conneaut Lake; Artist Cup Cafe on Chestnut Street, Meadville; Boot Box, Pennsylvania Avenue, Meadville; Casey’s Ice Cream on the Conneaut Lake Road; by Chuck Himes at Route 408, Townville; Coldwell-Banker at 12212 Midway Drive, Conneaut Lake; Crawford County Notary Services on the Conneaut Lake Road; Crawford County Visitors and Convention Bureau on the Conneaut Lake Road; Crawford Custom Care, Cutter Road, Meadville; Cutter’s Wholesale, Conneaut Lake Road; Dirk’s Cycle, Route 18, Conneaut Lake; Driftwood Restaurant on Erie Street, Linesville; George’s Jewelry in the Park Avenue Plaza; Hollywood Video, Water Street, Conneaut Lake; Irish Cove Motel, State Highway 618, Conneaut Lake; Lakeside Beauty Shop, Route 18, Conneaut Lake; Lakeside Beer, Route 18, Conneaut Lake; by Laura Gramalt in Girard, Ohio; Lighthouse Diner, Water Street, Conneaut Lake; Livingston’s Quality Meats, Water Street, Conneaut Lake; Mama Bear’s, Conneaut Lake Road, Conneaut Lake; Meadville Area Recreation Complex, Thurston Road, Meadville; The Meadville Tribune, 947 Federal Court, Meadville; Mike’s Auto Body, State Highway 77, Meadville; Pamiero-Toyota, Conneaut Lake Road; Peppercorn and Vine, Market Street, Meadville; Pittsenbarger Corner Market, Main Street, Springboro; Ralston Hardware, Water Street, Conneaut Lake; Rich Kappelman, East 6th St., Erie; Samuels Market, Main Street, Conneaut Lake; Second Chance Thrift Store, Park Avenue, Meadville; Shade and Shapes, Park Avenue Plaza; The Berry Basket, Water Street, Conneaut Lake; Tink’s Subs, Water Street, Conneaut Lake; Zatsick’s Golden Dawn, State Street, Conneaut Lake; and Zeljak Auto Sales, State Highway 6, Linesville.

Looks like there are more places selling tokens than the number of tokens sold! ;)

Also looks like there are a lot of companies that actually care.

Just because it's fun to keep an eye on - Monday morning's number is 3290.

Where are these numbers being posted?

Every morning on the front page of the Meadville Tribune.

Nice. Pretty cool that they always post that.

I wonder how accurate a count that be. How often do all those businesses report the token sales? I assume that every business was given a big sack of tokens to sell. Do they turn in the money they collect every day, every few days, every week, whenever they have enough to make it worthwhile?