Heide Park- B&M Wingcoaster 2014 looks interesting.

Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:16 AM

You can find photos of the layout on the site-thou-shalt-not-be-named among a small rendering. The "bretzel loop" double-inversion (doppelganger to a "pretzel loop" but inclined) should be a unique experience. Looks like a solid ride for Europe!

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:28 AM

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:34 AM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Why do European coasters seem so much more unique and freeform than American ones?

It's almost like in the US there's an expected 'tempo' to the ride/layout. It can get cookie-cutter and stiff.

This layout is like a piece of flowing artwork - very fluid-like, very RCT - compared to what we see. It's twisty and each twist just seems to blend or morph right into the next.

Just an observation. Or maybe I got into the brownies tonight.


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:00 AM

You make a great point, sir. But also I feel that the majority of USA parks that purchase large rides of this type (particularly LARGER versions than even this type) are parks with a lot of open flat spaces to stretch the ride out in interesting shapes. Do you think that is part of the reason or is it also because there are basically many parks owned by fewer chains?

The only thing missing from European parks is the massive size of most rides in USA parks. I think EU is starting to catch up (Shambala for instance).

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:16 AM

When describing a roller coaster's layout as "flowing" Roller Coaster Tycoon is not something that comes to mind, haha. Sorry!

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:35 AM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Yeah, I thought that. But I meant it more in terms of unique design...being different. This is the sort of stuff we used to build in RCT.


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:57 AM
bjames's avatar

European cities are the same way, all weird and twisty and freeform. American cities are grids. The coaster layouts in European parks oftentimes have to fit into a cramped or weird-shaped space, like the one above, whereas most parks in the US are out in the suburbs with plenty of land around them.

Also, "Top of Life"? Is that what they're calling that flip at the top of the lift hill that only wing coasters are seemingly allowed to have?

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 6:52 AM
Bakeman31092's avatar

I feel the same way about B&M, Gonch. That was kind of my thought with Banshee: sure, it will be a fun, smooth ride and a perfect addition to Kings Island, but the elements themselves are all stuff we've seen before, with the only thing that ever seems to change being the sequence. Say what you want about Intamin, but at least their designs all feel unique. B&M, on the other hand, seems to go by a proven formula, and they've certainly had great success with it.


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:23 AM

I believe that's "Top of Lift", there, bjames.

Except written in European.

Last edited by RCMAC, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:24 AM
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:46 AM
sirloindude's avatar

Frankly, I thought Banshee was perhaps one of the most unique designs of the inverted genre.

I don't know that the European B&Ms are necessarily super-different (excepting Alton Towers rides, of course). I just think that the differences are easier to spot because there isn't as high a concentration of them.

Now, as far as how European theme parks compare to their American counterparts in terms of theme work...


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:00 AM
kpjb's avatar

Lord Gonchar said:

Why do European chicks seem so much more unique and freeform than American ones?

Fixed that.


Hi

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:50 AM
Bakeman31092's avatar

What is unique about Banshee, other than the order of the elements? This isn't a complaint by any means, but up until the second vertical loop, the layout goes from one inversion straight into another, and each inversion is something that can be found on another coaster. Most of B&M's designs seem to be like that.


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:13 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

bjames said:

European cities are the same way, all weird and twisty and freeform. American cities are grids.

Bakeman31092 said:

...the layout goes from one inversion straight into another, and each inversion is something that can be found on another coaster.

Yes. These two things together.

Our coasters feel more like...

Drop
Element
Move to next element
Element
Move to next element
Element

...and so on.

The european versions of similar rides seem more flowy and organic. It doesn't feel like the point is to go from one element to the next, it feels more like they happen naturally along the way.

I can't explain or descirbe it any better than that.


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:44 PM

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't rides outside the US, and I'm talking mainly flats, run faster? This is where I'm going to sound incredibly stupid, but isn't the electrical power there different? I've noticed on ride specs there's different motors depending on the country where the ride is going. Kind of like how you need an adapter for your shaver or hair dryer. Anyway, I've heard and noticed on vids that rides there seem better than ours.

I agree that coasters in Europe look snappier and in turn more fun and forceful. Unless you look at a ride like Silver Star or something, then you're getting closer to US standards with that one.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:21 PM
James Whitmore's avatar

Different electrical standards shouldn't effect the force of gravity.


jameswhitmore.net

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:44 PM
rollergator's avatar

Lord Gonchar said:

The european versions of similar rides seem more flowy and organic. It doesn't feel like the point is to go from one element to the next, it feels more like they happen naturally along the way.

I can't explain or descirbe it any better than that.

I think you're saying something pretty similar to my complaint/praise about the "non-inverting trackage" on B&M coasters. IMO, it's what they do best, but what they're asked to do the least...at least on the US rides that do go upside-down.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:33 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar

I wonder if it has to do with amount of competition from other nearby parks. If the 2 other parks within 300 miles of you have B&M inverts, you're going to want to build one with an "-est" and especially with a lot of "loop-de-loops." If you don't have to market it against another park's, maybe you have some freedom to do some crazy, but not as directly marketable stuff?

Last edited by ApolloAndy, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:34 PM

Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:49 PM
sirloindude's avatar

Say what you will about Silver Star, but that ride was easily one of B&M's best outings.

I do think that some companies (Intamin especially) seemed to have pioneered some design artistry with rides like Expedition GeForce, but I'd argue that at least as far as they're concerned, their recent US designs have certainly not lost any of that artistry.


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Thursday, August 22, 2013 3:42 AM

Here you can see the coaster from a different perspective

Last edited by Alexatucla, Thursday, August 22, 2013 3:43 AM

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Thursday, August 22, 2013 4:15 AM
bjames's avatar

Lord Gonchar said:

Yes. These two things together.

Our coasters feel more like...

Drop
Element
Move to next element
Element
Move to next element
Element

I feel like you just summarized Batman: The Dark Knight at SFNE. IMO this is the worst B&M ride ever created. I hate it. And the more times I ride it make me hate it more because it's element after element without any ride in between (there's not even any airtime from the hill!). Now, I'm not familiar with any European floorless coasters, but I feel like they could be better because Europeans seem to be inherently more creative. Which leads into the second quote:

Lord Gonchar said:

The european versions of similar rides seem more flowy and organic. It doesn't feel like the point is to go from one element to the next, it feels more like they happen naturally along the way.

I can't explain or descirbe it any better than that.

Me neither but I agree. Alton Towers has some of the best B&M and other coaster designs period.

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