Heads up: SkyRush down for 2012

Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:25 PM

Perhaps the reliability concerns are finally catching up with Intamin. None of Intamin's 2013 coaster projects are in North America: http://www.rcdb.com/r.htm?order=-12&ot=2&co=6837&page=1.

Just for some reference, you'd have to go back to 1991 ´╗┐to find another year without a major new Intamin attraction in North America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intamin_rides (91's list includes a wooden coaster in the Netherlands, a flume at Bobbejaanland´╗┐ and an observation tower at Heide Park).

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Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:24 PM

Pretty sure I have said this before, but I always look at Intamin and B&M like BMW and Lexus respectively. Both are the best of the best, but where BMW is usually more fun, Lexus is much more reliable and still nothing to sneeze at.

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Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:33 PM

The only thing I take away from Intamin is a general tendency to over-engineer everything, and often still fail in some way (like boats that sink... a problem Arrow conquered 30 years ago). B&M rides have an elegant simplicity about the way they are built, specifically in the control systems and restraints. I liked the way the maintenance supervisor put it at Dollywood about things like lifting anti-rollbacks: "It's a pretty cool design... but [the B&M way] is a lot simpler, and cheaper."

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:13 AM

I love the Intamin intensity over the B&M stuff that is essentially predictable. My favorite B&M's are the flyer at sea world, Montu at BGT, and the vertical drops at both busch gardens.

I rode both Intimidator's and the one at Carowinds don't compare to Kings Dominion(even after modifications. I've ridden it both ways.) Intamin favorites, SROS/bizarro@sfne, Millennium Force, Maverick, I-305, El Toro, Storm Runner, and Skyrush.

The one thing with Intamin rides is you have to learn defensive riding techniques on some of their rides. Example: Skyrush you have to hold onto the side bars of the restraints to avoid the pain on your thighs. I'd rather have the more intense ride.

The one Intamin I like least is Fahrenheit. Other then the vertical lift its almost a clone of a B&M ride.

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:33 AM

LostKause said:

I'm all about B&M, but to be fair, the only big problem I have with Intamin is their reliability.

I'll phrase this as a positive - no one has even been ejected from a B&M ride...

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:51 AM

Coasterfantom2 said:

I love the Intamin intensity over the B&M stuff that is essentially predictable.

I find these statements, subjective as they may be, to be ridiculous. Both the "predictable" part and the "intensity" part. Both manufacturers build the rides the parks ask for. I mean, the same dude has played a part in the design of rides for both companies.

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:31 AM

Intamin is the BMW of the coaster industry. I think I may have overused this analogy, but I'm hopped up on coffee so I'll say it again. When they work, they work extremely well. But when it comes to reliability, they are the "goat pelt" of the industry. B&M is the Mercedes of the industry. If you want fast and furious, you can get it. If you want kushy and smooth, you can get it. Plus they are so expensive, yet elegant and pretty. (No car bias here :)...)

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:45 PM

Jeff said:
I find these statements, subjective as they may be, to be ridiculous. Both the "predictable" part and the "intensity" part. Both manufacturers build the rides the parks ask for. I mean, the same dude has played a part in the design of rides for both companies.

While I agree with what you're saying, most people who make that arguement tend to love the pre-2000 B&Ms that were designed by Stengel, as opposed to the ones after that have been built that weren't.

Some of my favorite B&Ms (Mmmmm...Diamondback) were recent, and I don't get the forceless comments.

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:18 PM

Coasterfantom2 said:

I love the Intamin intensity over the B&M stuff that is essentially predictable

...and also has a better safety record, fewer post-installation issues, more uptime, higher throughput numbers and more comfortable restraints.

You know exactly what you're getting when you buy a B&M. It's telling that Cedar Fair, when they could have gone with either Intamin or B&M for their last few installations have decided (I305 not withstanding) on B&M.

Since 2004 Cedar Fair has built exactly two Intamin coasters (Maverick & I305) and built 7 B&Ms (Silver Bullet, Hydra, Patriot, Behemoth, Diamondback, Intimidator - Carowinds & Leviathan) and has one more coming (Gatekeeper). I simply can't imagine that's coincidental.

Last edited by Gary Dowdell, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:18 PM
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:39 PM

Tekwardo said:
Some of my favorite B&Ms (Mmmmm...Diamondback) were recent, and I don't get the forceless comments.

Ditto for Wild Eagle. I dare you not to feel close to hurling after a dozen straight laps on it.

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:57 PM

These critiques about certain rides that have more forces than others seems like merely enthusiast talk. Even B&M's least aggressive rides are still highly marketable and popular with park visitors. Just because a ride doesn't land on Amusement Today's top 10 list doesn't mean it it's a failure. It all comes back to who is best suited to deliver what the park wants. Swinging for the fences isn't always the game plan.

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:59 PM

I get a kick out of the Wild Eagle is force less brigade I've seen in other forums. Ride it in the front left hand side and say that.

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:44 PM

Ride it in any seat a dozen times after eating ice cream!

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:31 PM

^^^^^ I agree about the reliability of B&M's rides, but at the same time they aren't as experimental in their offerings to parks. They seem to adhere to a philosophy that if they can't build a ride and have it run reliably they aren't going to build it. That has its merits, and that's why they have the reputation they have.

Where as with Intamin they will take some risks and hope that it works kind of approach. We've seen that happen many times over the years. 4 of them at Cedar Point alone. First Giga for the 2000 season, and it took B&M 12 years later to build their first.

My point being is B&M may have never built a giga if Intamin(or Morgan) didn't do it before them. I don't knock B&M for reliability and safety at all. They are the best when it comes to that. I'd rather see the envelope pushed and if a ride has to be modified because an over intense inline twist then so be it. Sinking boats are a whole other issue. ;-)

I am not a B&M hater by any means. There are a lot of good rides of theirs that I enjoy. I just prefer the intense Intamin airtime. Making you feel like you could get thrown from the ride is just part of the excitement for me. I'd love to ride Skyrush with just the seatbelt pulled tight.

Last edited by Coasterfantom2, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:39 PM
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:56 PM

But that is what makes them so appealing to parks... Reliability. They are safe choices if a park wants a very solid, reliable attraction. You take a huge gamble with Intamin, no doubt. I mean, look at the history... If I was a park, I would not even consider them. They may deliver some amazing rides, but it would not be worth the risk...

1.) SROS's: Ejecting riders... Once at SFDL and once fatally at SFNE.

2.) Perilous Plunge: Fatally ejecting rider.

3.) Xcelerator: Ride support modification and severe cable issues.

4.) V2/WT/S:UE: Ride support modification on spikes.

5.) Maverick: Heartline roll... Modification required.

6.) I305: Reprofile of entire first turn due to excessive forces. Restraint retrofit due to discomfort.

7.) Shoot The Rapids: Boats sinking... Poor reliability.

8.) Dragster: Reliability the first few years, cable issues (shrapnel anyone?)

I am sure there is plenty more examples as well... Sure they can make some great rides, but they also have so many more issues. Now look at B&M and tell me what type of issues they have had with any of their designs? I bet you won't find any. They deliver high quality machines and properly engineer them, unlike Intamin.

I like Intamin... I really do... But I really don't like their new offerings honestly. I feel B&M is stepping up in designs and layouts the past few years while Intamin is getting a bit too "push the envelope" and it is starting to backfire on them.

Last edited by SteveWoA, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:31 PM
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:11 PM

That's a good list Steve. What happened to the train on Kingda Ka during a test run? There are a lot of reliability issues documented with their rides. That is the downside for sure.

Last edited by Coasterfantom2, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:51 PM
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:30 PM

I forgot to mention the incident at Superman at GL... Where the fins became misaligned causing severe damage to the train frame (bent) and destroyed a bunch of the LIM's and magnetic braking during a test run. That was the last time it ran... Shut down for rest of year and taken out and sent to Dorney the next season.

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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:42 PM

I felt the same way on X Flight

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Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:51 AM

Didnt Goliath at Walibi Holland go through some serious structural modifications as well. Plus some of their drop rides have had a mishap or two (Hellevator/Drop Zone at CGA/The Edge at SFGA. Not that I'm adding salt to the intamin wounds or anything....

Last edited by delan, Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:52 AM
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Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:38 AM

Oh yea. The incident with the little girl whose legs got severed by an Intamin drop tower was the turning point for me, now that I think about it. That has got to be one of the most disturbing, anyways.

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