Gwazi gets GCI Millennium Flyer train(s)

Just to note - how many people have EVER been ejected from an Anton's restraints. Those old ratcheting lap bars sure don't "snug up" like the MF ones do...but yet they had a perfect safety record (Mindbender in Edmonton had other isues).

How much safer can you get than 100%? Even stuck upside down, there were NO problems...doesn't that say something about what is truly necessary for safety?

+1^ (Damn I'm trendy).

Amen gator!

It gets back to the uselessness of adjustable rigid restraints in the first place.

The reality is that the LOOSEST locking position for an adjustable restraint must be adequate to restrain the SMALLEST person who can be permitted to ride. And if that is the case, then what is the point in making the restraint adjustable?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Two Fifteen said:
Frankly, I don't blame a manufacturer for wanting to make sure the lapbar is always in its tightest possible position. Trusting both operators and riders 100% of the time to make sure the lapbar is in an effective position is impossible.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing a bit of comfort for a handful of people if it means preventing accidents.

Thats exactly why GCII lap bars come down the way they do. We have a spring that relieves pressure on the lapbars when it drops in the station when the platen is released. people try to cheat lapbars in the station all the time trying to leave room for more airtime. It's just added protection for the park as a manufacturer and for the park guest.

BTW, Gwazi has a newly designed lap bar, same as Eftelings trains as well. the new style is curved upward on the lower section that lays on your lap instead of being straight across. It should make it a little more comfortable.

OLD []

NEW [(

^I noticed the altered design of the lap bars while looking at pictures of Gwazi's new trains. I'm hopeful, as you are, that this will make the restraints less complain-worthy.

I would like to point out, though, that the fact this change has been implemented does mean that GCI felt there was a need to change it. ;)

Oh, but I would like to thank GCI for listening to customer feedback and actually doing something about it, rather than setting any and all concerns aside. That's what sets certain companies above the rest, IMO.

The design wasn't for comfort, it is actualy to secure smaller riders in place better so they stay centered in the seat rather then slide around from side to side in the seat.

So it IS for comfort. For their mommies' comfort.

(See my previous post explaining why the use of an adjustable restraint is kind of meaningless anyway, though effectively required by ASTM F 2291. Tighter != safer.)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

DantheCoasterman said:
I get it: you don't care to have a restraint pressing firmly against you for the entire ride. That's fine. But some of us do care, and the fact that you disagree doesn't make our argument "silly."

No, it is silly. You aren't being robbed of anything, and if this really prevents you from enjoying the ride, I'd suggest that you're being a whiney enthusiast. I sat on Lightning Racer once for dozens of laps, and had a blast. I've logged countless rides on Renegade. The design of the lap bar never prevented me from enjoying the rides. You know why? Because I don't sit around and pretend that I know better than the engineers, and I don't pretend that there's some kind of airtime limiting effect so I can go to a coaster Web site and bitch about it. Enthusiasts have been doing this for years, and it's pathetic. It has even gotten people killed.

As a matter of fact...

Let's say for sake of argument that there is a moment on a purely hypothetical ride where the train imparts a vertical force equal to -1Gz for a duration of 250 milliseconds.

When you reach that point in the ride, an unsecured rider will be lifted--

d = 16 ft/sec * (0.25^2) = 1 foot

Now, roller coasters do not actually produce negative accelerations in the Z axis. That is, they don't really throw you upwards. What really happens is that the up-stop hits the track and pulls the train downward faster than gravity would. Because gravity is what holds you in your seat, you go weightless, and the train actually drops out from under you.

What this means is that if you are unsecured, assuming you don't go over the seat back, you will feel 0Gz for a quarter of a second.

If you have six inches of clearance under the lap bar, you will feel 0Gz for 0.176 seconds, at which point you will crash into the lap bar which will drag you downward at -1Gz for 0.074 seconds.

If you have three inches of clearance under the lap bar, you will feel 0Gz for 0.125 seconds, followed by 0.125 seconds at -1Gz.

One inch of clearance: 0Gz for 0.072 seconds and -1Gz for 0.178 seconds

No clearance: -1Gz for 0.25 seconds

This is how El Toro gets its reputation for having more airtime than anything else. You can't feel 0Gz, and you can't get below 0Gz until you hit a restraint of some sort. I obviously havent measured it, but I'm guessing El Toro isn't such a great airtime machine after all, it just feels that way because its lap bars are way too tight.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I always lower the lap bar so that it is resting against my lap before the train is dispatched. I don't leave space in between even if the op puts it there. I always push down until my legs resist it. If the clicks weren't so far apart, you could get an even more customized locked position (like Anton restraints). I've aways wondered why modern lap bars tend to have so much movement between each ratcheting point??? Because of this, you often have to lower the bar below the point it contacts your lap so that it can click, then it raises back up slightly above your lap. Seems like it would be safer if it locked right at your lap. Perhaps Coasterpunk can enlighten us on that one.

^^I think Toro has 'extreme UPLIFT FORCES' which are totally different that 'airtime' as we know it :)

I seem to remember the term 'uplift forces' noted somewhere on the riding instructions of Toro.

Personally, I'll take airtime over uplift forces anyday!

Our lapbars are designed for an average persons build and have a standard 10 clicks once the lapbar comes down and secures the rider between the seat divider and the seat side. We also have 2 back up clicks before the first click. The lapbar cans are located on the outside of the car under the running board, directly below the diamond plat. Space is a factor on how complex they are. Our lapbar cans have roughly 60 parts that work together to lock and secure the rider in. Any of those parts the park can order if one becomes damaged we have some parts that are standard for both sides and some that are for right and left sides. Its the simplest way we have to secure someone in place without having many extra one off parts. Everything works on all our train from our Roar trains up to our newest.I'm sure some people toured our shop (which BTW is about 300% larger now) and saw our lapbar cans and how complex they are with everything fitting in place. Hopefuly that makes explains everything without going into too much detail.

Basicly we have to be able to get them to fit as many people as possible the easiest way possible considering the limited space we have to work with. Our standard 10 clicks works well for what we have to do.

You obviously haven't ridden El Toro is you think that's not airtime. If you want to call it "uplift force", I'd place emphasis on the "force".

Raven-Phile said:
You obviously haven't ridden El Toro is you think that's not airtime. If you want to call it "uplift force", I'd place emphasis on the "force".

Can I get a HALLELUJAH from the choir???!!!

Hallelujah!

By comparison, the older PTC lap bars have six positions; the newer ones have 12. PTC uses a dual ratchet rack, and I don't know if they got the extra positions by offsetting one of the ratchets, or if there are actually more teeth on the gear.

The most critical difference, though, between the PTC lap bar and the GCI lap bar is this:

When the GCI lap bar is in its first locking position, the end of the bar lines up with the outboard edge of the seat and the top of the seat divider. In other words, at the point designated as the minimum locking position for all riders, the GCI bar forms a closed loop around the rider's body. coasterpunk kind of described that, but stopped short of actually saying it. Anyway, by comparison, There is no position where a PTC lap bar will do the same for a typical rider. So in a GCI train, it is pretty easy to see where the minimum locking position is, and there is a clear, obvious, reasonable and logical standard for a properly locked lap bar. There is no such indication on a PTC train. You might get close to that full-wrap position if you can get the bar all the way down to the 6th notch, but most riders are too big for that; in fact, notch #3 is about all I can get on those (double those numbers if the lock was built in the last three years).

One other thing that coasterpunk didn't mention: Those two backup locking positions he talked about? That's the reason you need to fully open your lap bar any time the bars are released on a GCI train, even if you're not going anywhere. That resets the mechanism and makes sure that all the locking positions are where they are supposed to be, and that everything locks correctly.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Id find it a hell of a lot nicer if the GCI bar was curved instead of a solid T

I was at BGT Yesterday for Gwazi's Grand Reopening. The new Trains make for a CONSIDERIBLY BETTER RIDE! Park Employees also gave out Coupons for a 30% Discount for Food, which made for something you usually do not find at Theme Parks:

:) CHEAP EATS! :)

Tekwardo said:
Hallelujah!

Only one member in the choir? Recruiting time!

Raven-Phile said:
You obviously haven't ridden El Toro is you think that's not airtime. If you want to call it "uplift force", I'd place emphasis on the "force".

Like.

+1

Hallelujah.

...and so forth.