Geauga Lake / Cedar Fair Improvements?
You still fail to grasp the point I'm trying to make. I'm talking about classic rides to compliment a line-up of coasters, I'm not suggesting Whips, darkrides and flying scooters instead of another Intamin or B&M ride. I'm talking about a wide range of attractions, not a total change in direction.
Who has time to ride a Whip? Maybe people that, for one reason or another, don't want to ride all the coasters? Did it ever occur to you that not ALL 3 million CP guests don't like all the coasters? And when was the last time that anyone went to CP and rode ALL SIXTEEN coasters?
Good point, razore86. Why isn't a large number of rides a marketing option? "New rides for everyone in the family" instead of "One ride that 25% of guests will be able to enjoy"?
*** Edited 9/28/2004 9:29:03 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
I could care less about Cedar Point's flat rides. I go there because I like their coasters. And no one I know who doesnt ride coasters, and I know a lot of them, would even bother going to an amusement park at all. Let alone travel the three hours to Cedar Point.
The arguement could be made about families, but Cedar Point still seems to do well enough without the family rides so why try and compete with a place like PKI?
And your Hershey example, while a good one, misses one of my big points - did they market an entire year based on the additon of those slides near Wildcat? No, they just showed up. If you wanted to go ride, go have fun, if not, oh well. Even Claw when it went in was just a small picture on the park map (and I'm not even positive that was it's first year!).
Cedar Point has had no reason lately to go for the complete package. People were pouring in with the direction they were headed - same thing with GAdv. So why stop? Now, CP has hit a point where there's not too many more places to go as far as coasters go, so next year, you're probably going to see a giant flat or two, probably near the back end of the park. But that's more because there's not much left for them to do - I can guarentee you if there was more than an extreme looper, flyer and 4D that they didn't have, there would be more coasters going up at CP.
Plus, what of all the extra logistics that go into the "full package". Coasters are not maintenance free, but most of the ride is low maintenance - the steel of the tracks rarely breaks and the footers don't crack (or if they do, the whole ride goes, rather than just a repaid). Extensive collections of older flat rides would require a lot more mechanics, a lot more paint, a lot more spare parts, a lot more ride ops, etc. etc. etc. and they aren't going to seriously impact the bottom line.
Uh, Capt. RAZORE that's what most of us call a season pass. That's the whole concept of the thing. And I doubt they haven't thought of adding more rides and advertising them ... just seems like it would have occured to someone in management at some point ...
-- Spiff
Family RC has a mother, a father, 2 boys, and a grandmother. Mother RC says "Let's go to Cedar Point". Mother RC invites grandmother RC to go with them, but grandmother says "I won't be able to ride much it's all coasters". Mother RC looks up Cedar Point on the internet to find out that there's lots that grandmother RC to do from mild rides to shows. So grandmother RC deceides to go with them in conclusion making Cedar Fair $48 richer, plus if grandmother RC has fun she tells all her church ladies and they talk to their families about taking a trip to Cedar Point too!
Sorry if it sounds too confusing didn't know how to word what I wanted to say. *** Edited 9/28/2004 9:45:12 PM UTC by razore86***
Kings Island shows their competition with the other two parks by having a "new waterpark" included with admission, claims to the World's "Best Kid's Area", and two of the "biggest" (length, height, loop, name) wooden coasters in the World *plus* adding a major themed steel coaster marketed to the family for 2005. Cedar Point shows their competition with being a resort, having record-breaking steelies, and I'm sure they'll have something new for next season. Great America is competing even more in 2005 with adding a very expensive and massive new waterpark, having their Batman/Superman/Looney Tunes characters/rides, and having a well-rounded coaster collection. Who's the winner then? Umm, maybe it's us? ;)
+Danny
And in the late 60's, through the early 70's, they had TWO dark rides and a funhouse. The dark rides beingThe Pirate Ride and The Earthquake Ride. That's where a lot of the "Halloween" decorations came from?
They used to be the king of double classic rides. Tiki Twirl and Calypso. Zugspitz and the Super Himalaya. Trabant and Schwabinchen.
For a real thrill, check out all the rides they've gotten rid of in their "dead ride" graveyard, across from the Centennial Theater.
Well Razore, there IS a lot for grandma to do at Cedar Point. There's shows and shops up and down Frontier Trail, the train is great, my grandma loves Pirate Ships, of which there is one, there's a beach, there's the hotels, there's swimming pools at the hotels, there's watching the grandkids smile from ear to ear coming off the big coasters, need I go on? And that's the whole point of the season pass.
Cedar Point's already gotten 3 extra admissions in the last month they probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise because they sold me a season pass at the end of the year last year. Not a bad deal for them - lose out on 4 1/2 admissions on me, gain 3 back plus food, on-ride photos, etc.
razore86 said:What I can't understand is that Dominator's logo(on GL's refillable cups) is blue, when the track colors are yellow/purple. The trains on Dominator are a mess, with them craving out the Batman logo. I can't see Cedar Fair leaving the trains in the condition there in.
My bet is that the ride will be repainted this offseason. As you have seen, new signs and such have progressively been built as this season has progressed. I think we'll see a new Dominator sign where the B:KF sign used to be as well as a paint job next season. Along with the paint job would be a rehab on the trains to get rid of the 'batman' seats.
I don't know but maybe people like my mother, aunt, cousin and niece who don't ride coasters but spent a lot of money at four parks in PA just this summer. Rode all 4 Whips. Didn't ride one coaster.
I'm not looking to jump into this since it's obvious Rob is right ;), just wanted to offer a different, non-enthusiast, perspective.
+Danny
And man, the atmosphere at CP is so great. I love it there. Its not the same as Knoebels, but thats what makes Knoebels or any of the other smaller parks so great! They arent Cedar Point!
Back on to GL, I will say that some new flat rides to that park will do it some good.
XFlight said:
slithernoggin said: They had only a few months to de-Six Flags the park, develop and implement new signage and graphics, train staff, integrate Geauga systems into Cedar Fair's....Months? Try 22 days from the time CF moved in till opening day.
Also at the convention... someone asked how they managed to get all the gift shops fully stocked with ride- and park-specific merchandise in so short a time. The person speaking (and I forget his name, I'm sorry) said that while the sale wasn't officially closed until early 2004, they knew in late 2003 the takeover would be happening, and were able to begin planning at that point.
kpjb said:
On the (empty) Skyscraper we walked up to the exit only to have the ride op tell us that we had to enter around the other side. We walked around the other side... to have the same ride op let us in.
Our turnstile is on the other side, so we have to make you walk around. Also, that is where the Rider Safety sign is. It isn't that we want to be jerks or anything.
-Sam
2004 Steel Venom, Head Spin, Skyscraper, Bellaire Express Crew
There are two primary kinds of marketing that apply to most forms of recreational entertainment (such as amusement parks): Media Advertising and Word-of-Mouth Advertising.
Media Advertising is relatively easy to pull off. It's simple for corporate executives to hand an idea to a group of marketing gurus and have them come up with a way to put a neat little spin on it. Media Advertising creates whimsical taglines like "Get to the Point!" and dancing senior citizens that strangely resemble Uncle Junior from the Sopranos. Moe often than not, Media Advertising works. It gets people talking (like they're doing right now regarding Kingda Ka). It gets people through the turnstiles. It puts money in the bank.
Word-of-Mouth Advertising (what I'll call WOM from now on to save my fingers from typing it over and over) is a little more difficult but has the potential to be a lot more effective in the long run. The thing is, WOM is not only created by something enormous and spectacular, it is often created by the little things that easily get overlooked because they blend seemlessly into the big picture.
Take a park like Indiana Beach. They have great coasters but they also have a bunch of cool flat rides like a Paratrooper, Yo-Yo, Double Shot and Air Crow. They're what you'd call a "supporting cast" in a good movie. You don't neccessarily leave the movie theater talking about them but they still contributed a lot to your enjoyment of the film. I'm willing to bet that very few people go to Indiana Beach for their Paratrooper, yet it winds up being a huge part of the overall experience for many. And if people enjoyed the overall experience, they are much more inclined to tell others about the great time they had at Indiana Beach. Its WOM that caused people in California to talk about a park in a sleeply little PA town called Elysburg well before the era of the internet. Its WOM that made the Coney Island Cyclone a coast-to-coast legend before it could be featured on a hundred or so Discovery Channel shows.
People like things such as darkrides and flat rides. If they didn't, those companies wouldn't be selling them. Why do you think that a company like Zamperla offers a few dozen different kinds of flats? Could it be because there is a huge demand for them? And why do you think that there is a demand for them? Could it be that people enjoy them and want to see more of them at parks?
Don't underestimate the value of older rides. Regardless of what some short-sighted people will tell you, nostalgia is a sound and effective business plan. Stand in line for a Whip or a Scrambler next time you go to an amusement park and you're sure to hear a father or grandfather tell their son/grandson or daughter/granddaughter that the ride is just like the one they used to ride when they were kids. There is a reason that Sellner still sells Tilt-a-Whirls and Eli Bridge still sells Scramblers. Actually, if you take a look at a lot of new-age flat rides, you'll see that they differ very little from their older counterparts. Larson's Flying Scooters are essentially the same as the ones that Bisch-Rocco built. The Halloswings that Holiday World added recently are no different from an old Zierer Wave Swinger and that ride is surprisingly similar to the old Traver Circle Swings. Have you seen Zamperla's Demolition Derby ride? Its a PTC Cuddle Up!
Coasters are a great thing, especially the ones that go very fast and very high. But marketing research- hard statistics- will show you that a small percentage of a park's guests will ride coasters like TTD, X and Kingda Ka. It is rides like the flats that cater to a broad range of park guests, everyone from little kids to teens to parents to seniors. Go on Phantom's Revenge and you'll see a sample of one of Kennywood's demographic targets. Go on the Whip and you're likely to see samples of ALL of Kennywood's demographic targets.
It may be rides like Phantom's Revenge that get people TALKING, but its experiences that rides like the Whip and the Old Mill make possible that get the greatest bulk of people to go out of their way to spend money at a park. Experiences create positive WOM advertising, not marketing departments that know how to promote an Intamin Rocket Coaster.
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