Gay couple asked to reverse "marriage is so gay" shirt at Dollywood

^ +1. And that's from a card carrying member of the Pink club.

Lord Gonchar said:
Funny that you mention intolerance and ignorance because your handling of my comment was full of it. No one (here at least) is shocked or offended that you're gay. No one cares. Hell, more power to you. But don't let being gay get in the way of proper social decorum.

If I wore a shirt that said "Marriage Is So Gay" to the park - they'd have made me turn it inside out too. That's why this isn't discrimination or hate. It's a dress code. Get over yourself.

This is why Gonch is still my hero. My evil, evil hero. :)

How sad, if the woman wearing the T-shirt wore it because it was her favorite shirt, and it just happened to be clean that day. lol

It would be terribly sad if my favorite Metallica t-shirt was the only one clean that day and I wore it at Dollywood too. It has a picture of a toilet, with a hand coming out of it, holding a knife. It reads, "Metal up your a**".

And if I had to flip it inside out, it would be so sad that it would make me cry.

;)

Now that I think about it, I also once had a shirt special made for me that I wore on stage when I was in my one of my old bands that had a single white star on the chest, and above that, in black shiny letters against the black fabric, it read, "FAGGOT". That was my favorite t-shirt, before it got stolen by a fan. Would that have been appropriate to wear at Dollywood?

I kind of feel like on stage was the only appropriate place for me to wear that one. :)

That's an interesting choice in apparel, especially with such a derogatory term on it.

I would have a very difficult time calling one of my gay friends by that term, even if they were comfortable with it. The shortened, 3-letter version is OK among some of them, but I can't do that one - that's like using the N word, in my eyes.

I just feel it weird that all the Gay people hate it when you call someone Gay or Fag, make movements about it, and often pick fights for someone using it....

Then of course when we try to stop these types of word callings or "offending" things, they get mad again because they are the ones using it...

This is starting to become like Blacks and the N-word.... They get mad at people using it, but they can use it all they want...

People just like to create fights for no reason....

I find it odd that so many people capitalize the word gay. Is there something I'm missing, or is it just that it's a proper name now?

Very few black people are okay with the N word being used. You have ignorant people that do ignorant things in any race or social group.

As far as the term gay, that's usually not used as a derogatory term, and many gay people self identify as such. The F word obviously is different. As far as I'm concerned, the F word, the N word, the R word, the C word, all derogatory, and people that refer to others as that (regardless of whether they self identify or not) should be ashamed of themselves.

Having said that, again, this shirt, depending on the intention of the person wearing it, etc., could have been controversial. I personally don't mind that privately owned businesses often don't allow politically/religious/sexually/sexuality charged shirts to be worn. Make your statements, but there's a time and place for that.

Granted, that's my personal opinion and I don't care if anyone thinks it is closed minded or not. I'm all for sharing beliefs, freedom of speech, and equal rights. But I go to a theme park to have fun, not to discuss socio-political topics.

Well, it was about 15 years ago, and I was making a statement by labeling myself. In every town we visited, I got a lot of chuckles and a few gasps when I took off the over shirt halfway through our set to reveal the offensive shirt (it happened during our "gayest" song" lol). Doing that probably sold 20 more CDs per night.

I don't think I would ever wear a shirt like that now. Times have changed. My friends playfully called me that word (and a few other hilarious derogatory names that are probably even worse) on occasion, and it did not offend me in any way, and that's why I thought that the shirt was so clever.

Comedy is subjective.

But the point is, I am 100% positive that Dollywood would not let me in with that shirt on, and that would be for the same reason that they asked the lesbian to turn her "Marriage is so gay" shirt inside out.

I'm glad someone brought up the issue of equality. That's a good place to go to talk about the motivation around the shirt.

When I was in college in the early 90's, we had a guy (Larry something, may he rest in peace) who was the "Director of Multicultural Affairs." African-American himself, he took the rather unpopular stance that there was no need for affirmative action. His rationale was that it simply perpetuated discrimination.

If I were an idealist, I would probably agree with him. Reality, however (in 1992, at least), was not ideal. Racism was, and still is, alive and well, and I could see at the time why a policy of affirmative action was not entirely out of line. That's kind of how I perceive this issue about gay rights. The fact that someone feels the need to wear this shirt, and that someone else finds it offensive, to me illustrates that equality does not yet exist, and it's important to force the discussion.

Again, if wasn't implied by the park employee that gay marriage wasn't family friendly, I'd say it's all good, you change the shirt, and you move on. It's certainly within their right. Unfortunately, that's not what happened.

I see a lot of people being asked to flip their shirts over at SFGAm, the park is private property, they can determine what they deem to be offensive or what might cause a disturbance.

I am for gay marriage/unions, but they are blowing this out of proportion.

"If you are looking to be offended, you will be..."

Also, the only people saying that the employee said, "family friendly' are the two ladies...days later while addressing the media. How do we know for a fact that is what the employee said?

sealedseven said:
I just feel it weird that all the Gay people hate it when you call someone Gay or Fag, make movements about it, and often pick fights for someone using it....

Then of course when we try to stop these types of word callings or "offending" things, they get mad again because they are the ones using it...

This is starting to become like Blacks and the N-word.... They get mad at people using it, but they can use it all they want...

People just like to create fights for no reason....

Strange you spell out the F** word but not the N***** word :)

It's not for no reason, people want to be heard and have different ways of expressing themselves.

I'm not sure (as a gay man) that it's ok to say the F** word... I do know, that if I use the word freely, I may hurt someone that is listening (who doesn't know that I am, infact, gay). Plenty of people are still closeted b/c of the (some of the) prejudice and society we live in; I went through it, thank god it's much better know.

But there is no universal definition of "family friendly." Its a subjective determination. In this case, that determination was made by the company (the way that companies can make determinatons -- through their employees). Seems odd to me that someone would be ok with the park saying the shirt isn't appropriate or in compliance with the park's rules but not when they say it isn't family friendly.

And freedom of expression has never meant that you can say whatever you want where ever you want.

Anyone actually look at Dollywood's dress guidelines?

Not that it really adds much, but there it is in black & white.

I think the big question is what constitutes a 'family atmosphere'?

I would suspect that while the term may be outdated - and certainly a 'shades of grey' judgement call - we all know what they mean. Let's not get hung up on the semantics of it.

There's a certain atmosphere they want to maintain. They felt this crossed the line. I don't think I have a problem with that.

Calling something 'so gay' - even in jest - in that context is certainly a potentially offensive thing. I can't strut around with a "My Wife Married A Big Dick" on my shirt and claim that it's ok because I have a dick, it's just an ironic statement and that it's family friendly because I have a family.

I wonder if the woman had worn a shirt that said "Gay Day 2010" from Disneyland, if she would have been asked to turn the shirt around? lol

This is a strange, strange world we live in.

As a gay man and long time lurker, I officially joined the forum tonight to support Gonch and everything he has posted on this topic. If I owned Dollywood I would have asked the couple to do the same. I also feel that anyone who knows anything about Dolly know exactly where she stands on human rights and it's a shame a big deal is being made about a silly t-shirt and the poor taste of those who wore it. People need to be more considerate of everyone else when they are in public and this includes watching what you say, what you do, where you step, how loud you are, and what you are wearing. I get the message - it's cute - but not appropriate. I'm stunned these ladies didn't have the common sense not to wear that shirt and I'm embarrassed for them that they needed to be told not to do so, and more so if they continue to press the matter.

I thought the wording was innocent and clever. To me It did show the woman as a fun loving person just out to enjoy a day at the park. The wording seemed to sidestep the politics of both sides and just express her personality mostly. Anyone who had issue with it would have been the source of the problem.

Back in the 90's Cedar Point police made news when they saw a guy wearing a shirt that said "I'm not gay but my boyfriend is" and when the guest refused to turn it inside out The police waited until he was locked into Corkscrew, held the ride, called for back-up and escorted them out of the park. The park stood by their actions to the end. I remember the statement "I wouldn't know how to explain it to my kids" being used by CP's PR.

I give credit to the woman in this instance for turning her shirt inside out upon request. That probably couldn't have been easy to do but you can't let something like that slide so the media was a good place to turn.

The high possibility of situations like this are what made me seriously cringe when CP opened that "Attitudes" shop by Raptor with shirts that were quite obviously skirting or crossing the line of their very own dress code policy. If you're gonna have it (a dress policy), stick by it; although I don't think any decision by an hourly employee would be backed by management there unless it had either the F-bomb or B-word on it.

Dollywood is in the middle of the Bible Belt and has a Gospel Music Museum for crying out loud. Those two ladies had to know there was a more than likely chance their shirt would be seen as offensive by several people and were potentially stirring up a hornets nest.

I'm really ambivalent about the whole gay rights thing. I have plenty of friends that are gay, having worked at two parks, and if they want to get married...I may not personally agree with the idea for a few reasons, but I think they have a basic right to under our Constitution. That said, the park was perfectly within its bounds to ask that the shirt(s) in question be turned inside out, as the dress policy is something they *agreed* to by purchasing their tickets.* Also, as stated above, there is no way they didn't know they were possibly poking a hornets nest, given one of the first things you see as soon as you walk into the park is a Gospel Music museum. The park was in the right, plain and simple.

*There are valid comparisons to be drawn between this and an EULA and the argument that both are generally unenforceable, as many conditions may not be reasonably known by the consumer before reaching the EULA, or in this instance, being informed of a dress code violation.

Lord Gonchar said:
Calling something 'so gay' - even in jest - in that context is certainly a potentially offensive thing. I can't strut around with a "My Wife Married A Big Dick" on my shirt and claim that it's ok because I have a dick, it's just an ironic statement and that it's family friendly because I have a family.

What if your name was Richard? :)

On that same note, it would be offensive if I wore the "marriage is so gay" shirt. It would be different if I was wearing the "legalize gay" shirt mentioned a few pages back. I get the irony and the power of taking back the meaning, but I bet a lot of teenage boys would be pointing and laughing at the shirt thinking it was funny, and not in an ironic way.

Maybe it's must me, but I really think this whole situation is being taken out of context and therefore being blown out of proportion. It isn't a gay rights issue. Period. In an ideal world, everybody in a general public setting would be savvy about political and social issues enough to get the irony and humor of the shirt. But this isn't an ideal world. And the literal meaning of the shirt can be construed as offensive to the LGBTA community.

I think Dollywood was actually being an ally to the LGBT community. And I don't think by saying the shirt wasn't "family friendly" that they were actually saying that being gay isn't "family friendly." I think they were saying that using a term that is offensive to the LGBTA community is not "family friendly."

Again, your opinions may vary. It's a way sexier story and debate if we can limit our mindset to the idea that Dollywood would oppress the expression of a lesbian couple. I just don't see it that way. At least I don't have enough information to make that assumption from what's been provided and I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt.