Future Destiny USA to have Largest Indoor Water Park

Wow! A five mile river for tubing which can be used at night for "real" boats that will tour down the river. Quite an ambitious plan but I might just go to Syracuse to check this out.

Behind the scenes of an aquarium and locks that will change levels for the tubers. This thing sounds incredible. If they can dream it, they can do it.

I love those NGBS guys!

Not to kill your hopes and dreams but the Mall in America was originally planned to have a large waterpark and a lake for fishing but those ideas ended up getting cut out. Hopefully this is all true and all cause it sounds neat.

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Fav Steel: Millenium Force Fav Wood: Viper

I was excited about this project but then I read "two billion" and "no funding".

I agree. I'll get excited when they break ground, but with all of the empty retail out there, I'll be a skeptic that this thing will ever get built.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Climbing as we fall, we dare to hold on to our fate, and steal away our destiny to catch ourselves with quiet grace" - The Stairs, INXS

I hope NBGS got their consulting fees up front.

A 'huge mall' concept without one anchor tenant signed on is less than nothing. A mall with a couple tenants on board is nothing but good-looking paper.

Do you have any idea what Target Corp (once known as Dayton-Hudson) tried to do to the Mall of America?

They signed on as one of the four anchors, used that as a negotiation tool to stick it to every other mall in town where they already had stores (better lease terms, substantial property improvements, etc.) and then waltzed out of the MOA deal during a very critical stage. They came within inches of killing the Mall altogether.

It tool strong faith by some of the major backers ( a pension fund) and a lot of sweat to get Nordstrom on board at the last minute.

Never mind the economy...what about the Chapter 11-happy, low wage-paying, heavy markup-inking, rat-bastard anchor tenants?

-'Playa

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo. *** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 12/10/2002. ***

It certainly seems there are plenty of partners on board for this project. The City of Syracuse, the US Department of Energy, the Syracuse Airport and a variety of Convention and Visitor's Bureaus. That is the beginning; getting support from local government and business.

The official website www.destinyusa.com is pretty interesting. Other attractions being considered are:

100 Acre enclosed park, 6 story rock and ice climbing wall, 15,000 seat amphitheater, 20,000 hotel rooms, marine life exhibit, etc.

Walt had a dream that some people thought was pretty nuts.

Those partners and $7.99 will get you a bucket of KFC--but only if you don't forget your coupon.

Okay--I'm exaggerating a little. It will also get you tinsel, shiny balloons and dopey guys in suits who'll gladly pose for the 6 PM news.

Hear you nothing that I say? The Ghermezian brothers had actual, real-life experience building huge malls (like the one in Edmonton), cash-rich backers, a better economy, real life anchor tenants (Sears, Macy's, Bloomingdale's) and still almost didn't make it.

I'm not saying it can't happen...oh, wait a minute, yes I am. See, the Mall of America was all planned and built at once--twin massive 9-story parking garages, 13,000 parking spaces, amusement park, the whole shebang. (Of course, they're still talking about a Phase 2 and the aquarium didn't open until years later blah blah blah but you get the point). Somehow, someway, the good folk of Syracuse think they're gonna turn this cute widdle thing into the biggest retail development in North America and then add 20,000 hotel rooms. Nuh uhhhhh! Not unless you smack it down and start over. I swear somebody's snorting Drano.

-'Playa

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.

*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 12/10/2002. ***

THANK YOU PYRAMID COMPANY!!!!! This is great because I LIVE IN SYRACUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna have to side with 'Playa on this one. Although the idea may be great and exciting...ideas don't talk...money does. Creating a financing package of $2+ billion in today's economy is impossible...for this type of project.

The river certainly sounds unique, but how many people will actually use it as the "transportation" function they are hoping for. I love lazy rivers, but 5 miles is too much, even with theming and entertainment along the way. How exactly do you monitor 5 miles of lazy river, with multiple access points, entertainment venues, locks and conveyors? A video camera does you no good when someone is drowning.

How exactly do they plan to fill 20,000 hotel rooms on a consistent basis? A single mall/entertainment venue cannot support that. For comparison, the largest hotel (by rooms) in Vegas is the MGM Grand and it has 5,034 rooms. That place is gargantuan. Multiple that by 4 and you have "Destiny's" proposed hotel population.

It is a neat idea, but they will definately need to scale it down before they are able to get real investors.

I don't know if it will become reality or not. However, there is a waterpark down in Mexico, I think, that uses the "transportainment" model of NBGS and it is quite successful. It isn't 5 miles, or course.

As for a single mall supporting 20,000 guest rooms, that is suspicious. However the Sawgrass Mills outlet mall in South Florida draws more people annually than all other Florida attractions with the exception of Walt Disney World. I am assuming the 20,000 rooms would be total for the Syracuse area and not just on the DestinyUSA proper.

As for the $2 billion price tag, I think there are some estimates that this was nearly the cost of the new Tokyo DisneySea and all of its components so I would never say impossible but it would be a huge mountain to climb.

I agree that there are a lot of great ideas that have come and gone in the blink of an idea but this one is certainly unique.

But what is a visitor?

At an amusement park, we think of someone who came and paid an admission fee. At a mall, it's someone who only walks in the door.

So a carload of teens who hang out on Fridays become 208 annual visitors even if they don't spend dime one. If they stop in the food court for fries after school every day, they become 1,040 visitors. See how quickly that adds up?

About that 20,000 room hotel: The Mall of America has about one-third the rooms in the vicinity and they sure as heck don't own them all. This plan is purely delusional. A nice delusion with the waterpark and all, but...

-'Playa

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo. *** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 12/10/2002. ***

Finally a park that is 5 minutes away!

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Dan ~ Proud Coasternet Staffer (Coasterman Dan)
"The floor is sinking but you will be sailing. 3,2,1, clear! Your outta here" ~Raptor

The way this project is going to sink like the Titanic, it should be renamed *DensityUSA*...;)

Normally I don't agree with 'Playa...makes it too easy for him to drive if he doesn't have to turn around and slap me every so often....:)...but with the economy in the hopper, exceptionally NOT likely...

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HIPPIE- Highly intelligent person pursuing interesting endeavors...;)
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle - unless you've got a spare planet!

Look I know you think that this is unrealistic and all but let me tell you something:

Darien lake == middle of nowhere == still tons of customers

Carousel Mall (the current name) is already pretty big and there are tons of people there that come in from all of NY.

The Syracuse area is populated alot and people are looking for things to do. There isn't an amusement park within 1 and 1/2 hours.

This would be perfect!

Read the preview movie. Opening Summer, 2004.

Now, I'm no expert, but even with financing and groundbreaking, wouldn't it take more than a year and a half to construct this complex?

Wow, this whole thing sounds great. I have been hoping that either the turning stone or this prodject would provide a water park. Living about an hour away from this will be nice. That river sounds amazing.

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Have you hugged a Beemer today?

Meanwhile in the real world, the only thing that's actually being built is a 2,400 space parking garage. A 1,300 hotel is being proposed, but that's it. Oh, yeah--remember what I said about anchor retailers? Told ya.

-'Playa

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.

Other than the waterpark is there plans for a standard indoor amusement park like @ MOA and West Edmonton Mall? I haven't heard much about that and was wondering if a roller coaster is planned for Destiny USA?

'Playa, that Told Ya doesn't say that other retailers don't want to come in. What it is saying is that the current retailers don't want the competition. Well, of course they don't. We have malls down here in South Florida with 6-10 anchor stores. Judging by my last trip to Sawgrass Mills I would say they are doing just fine.