Frontier's Comment on Block Brakes

This was posted by one of the Fronteir developers who on occasion, will jump in to a topic. Some people (me included) were concerned about how the block brakes actually stop the trains, even if a train ahead has cleared its zone. In fact, even with *one* train on the track, in test mode, the train would still abruptly stop then continue which I found rather strange. Here's the answer:

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"There is a very good reason why block brakes stop cars dead. Consider you had a coaster design where you wanted a car to whiz past a block brake if the area ahead was clear, then into a loop for instance.

If at any point the block section ahead *was* blocked (ie still waiting for peeps to get on the train), then you would expect the car to stop. However, because the car has now lost it's intertia, it wouldn't make it round that next loop.

This is why the rule is that cars will *always* stop for block brakes, that way you never get any nasty surprises. In other words you can't assume that a coaster car will fly past a block brake, and therefore have a varying speed after a blockbrake depending on the state of the next block section.

Hope this makes sense. "
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Nope, I still don't get it. Real coasters allow trains to pass through clear blocks, so I don't understand what the problem is.

I can see if they used it during TEST mode to make sure the train clears the block-break afterwards, but while the train is regularly running open and the 2nd train is already filled & ready to dispatch, there should be no reason it would come to a dead-stop EVERY friggin' time.

Although there's a sense of realism there, it's also unrealistic in the sense that the block breaks on just about any real world coaster, when a 2nd train is ready, won't come to a dead hault.

I remember John Wardley pointing out that it's natural to trim the speed of a train at a block brake, and that makes sense. A train has to be able to complete the course from a block from a dead stop, so the rest of the course is designed with this in mind. However, the design is usually such that it will crawl through the course from a dead stop, and is therefore only slowed at a block. Ride any B&M with a mid-course. Duh.

So in other words, they don't see it as a bug, and therefore it will not likely be changed for the final release. So as I pointed out earlier, a lot of tracks from RCT2 will not run without modification when imported into RCT3.

That sounds like one of the biggest BS excuses for "we'd rather hit the X-mas season deadline" ever.

Seriously, it makes NO sense.

I haven't been able to get the demo to work yet. On RCT2, the block brakes usually slow the trains down to 4mph or a little faster if the train is traveling fast when it hits them.

Are you saying in RCT3 they completely stop everytime instead?

Sadly, yes.

And you can't trick it and just hit the block faster like in RCT2, it stops the train no matter how fast it enters the block brake.

A giant step backwards from the already crappy blocks used in RCT2.

Someone get a hacker, we can fix this game damnit!

Or start up a petition!

:( :( :(

Your are right, that is a crappy step backward. Their excuse is just that, an excuse.

When you test a coaster with multiple trains in RCT2, it starts all of the trains except for the one in the station at a stop. THIS tests for intertia from a stop. There is no reason the game should do it with a moving coaster unless the block is full.

If the block brakes just made the coaster very slow in RCT2 then it should be doing at least the same thing in RCT3.

This is a big flaw in the new game. After all, it is Rollercoaster Tycoon. If the coasters don't run nicely, its not top-quality.

I'm going to try it with a fully running "open" coaster which I haven't tried yet, because each time I've tried these in test mode, I immediately removed them out of dissapointment.

...wouldn't mind if they changed that sound effect too -- RCT2's block brakes (I believe) had that nice "whoosh" air pressure sound. Currently, it sounds like the train is hitting a large obstruction on the track.

I agree with DawgBite, it should do this in the test mode, so you're sure that the circuit isn't flawed. Once the thing is open, though, the blocks should have no effect if you've built the coaster with proper timing.

Besides, who would be stupid enough to put blocks right before a loop?

Don't answer that question. I'm sure alot of people are who have no idea how to design coasters.

That doesn't make any sense...

Obviously that totally sucks if they can't make it run with block brakes as it should...but if they were going to do with from the beginning, then why can you still change the speed limit through that section of track before you add it on. It looks like they are being lazy.

OK, I think I worked out a 'reasonable' solution to the mid-course block brake issue in RCT3. It's not perfect, but I just might prefer it to the train stopping on the block using the standard method.

Open this image for reference.

Those of you familiar with some of the RCT2 designs in CB Games know that as a little "cheat" we'd use 'helper lifts' in out designs. I think KTS actually came up with this as many of the older classic woodies in real life used to use such things. In designing these older woodies, he discovered these 1 piece helper lifts also work as a block (they'll stop the train if the next block is not clear) - The same thing applies in RCT3.

So now you have your block, but it won't slow the train at all if the next block is empty - your train just blows by at full speed. This is fine if you want that, but sometimes it is beneficial to trim off some speed mid-course. That's where the regular brakes come in. Follow the helper with a series of brakes in decreasing sequential speed. (in the screenshot, I used roughly 35, 30, 25 and 20 MPH)

Now you have a flat section mid-course block that looks very real (except for that one piece of chain) and has a brake run on it.

The effect is that if you designed a decent ride and the block ahead is clear, the train will not be affected by the helper chain and will smoothly slow to 20 miles per hour (or whatever speed you set the brakes at) and continue on. If there is a problem and the block ahead is occupied, the coaster stops on the chain and will be pulled up to the level as soon as the next block clears to continue it's run.

This is the very definition of a mid-course block. It can trim speed if you want, but it doesn't have to. It will stop a train if the path is not clear and you can leave the block at any speed desired.

Make sense?

Gonch...you're not a Lord...you da' King!!!

I've not built a coaster this way, but how do you test it to make sure that if the train does have to stop on your helper lift, it can complete the course?

Assuming a standard 3 train layout (blocks being station, lift, midcourse and final brake run before the station), just run 3 trains. One will start on that midcourse.

This does expose the one slight flaw in the workaround. Now that train starting on the chain lift will be moving much slower through the block than normal. This can screw up the timing of the train coming off the lift causing it to stop on the helper and screw up the train behind it, etc.

Again, it's just another flaw in the game and a horrible decision by the designers to start the three trains in a standard layout like this:

1. In the station
2. Mid-Course
3. Top of the lift

If they did it like RCT2 (1. Station 2.Final brake 3.Mid-course) the timing wouldn't be an issue because train one has to leave the station then climb the lift. With the RCT3 starting setup you lose the time it takes to climb the lift because train 3 starts at the top. Just another way they crippled the ability to make realistically running coasters :(

For what it's worth, I still like a block brake to end the final brake run. It creates the needed final block and stopping the train coming into the station kind of makes sense to me.

I couldn't get helper lifts to work as fake blocks on the game. It wouldn't let me run more than 1 train when I tried it.

The game is very fickle (go figure) about coaster options.

You have to check the box indicating block sections before you up the number of trains. Then if you go back and modify the layout, the block section box stays checked, but the number of trains goes back to one so you have to up it again.

Maybe this is the problem? Helper lifts work on both coaster types in the demo.