floorless vs. flyers

Saturday, September 6, 2003 8:29 AM
Recently I was in a Coasterbuzz forum which talked about how Flyers just might be the next Standup coaster. I personally love flying coasters, albeit I have only been on S:UF at SFGAm. I am just wondering why you think that all these parks are purchasing floorless coasters instead of flyers? I mean, a flyer is in a totally different position, while floorless is just a regular sitdown without the floor( which, IMO, gives NO extra thrill). I am not dissing the layout of floorless coasters, because a lot of them do have good layouts. But how come we don't feel the same fate for floorless???

I am one.
I am Turbo.
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Saturday, September 6, 2003 8:59 AM
It's what the parks want?

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Saturday, September 6, 2003 9:06 AM
I've only ridden three floorless (S:KC, Kraken, BKF) but I rank them much higher than the two flyers I've been on (S:UF, X-Flight). I MUCH prefer the front row of a floorless to any seat on a flyer so I don't see the continued floorless trend as a bad thing.

Guess? Maybe less expensive and great capacity than flyers?

Saturday, September 6, 2003 9:17 AM
there is a different feeling without the floor, i end up keeping my feet out the whole time and it just feels cooler and more free.

i personally dont like flyers, i dont feel safe at all. i feel like i am falling out the entire time and i dont enjoy it. especially the parts where the gs are pushing me down into the restraints. i hate them.

i would also say ride capacity has a lot to do with it too.

/ --------------------------------------

Saturday, September 6, 2003 9:44 AM
Floorless coasters are more popular and have better capacity.

As Mitch always said, "If you had a freind who was a tightrope walker and he fell down just walking down the street, that would be completely unacceptable."

Saturday, September 6, 2003 9:49 AM
I'm an acrophobic, so a flyer really doesn't sound like fun to me. Most of my friends hated heights before riding enough coasters to overcome their fears. *If* this is a common feeling among the GP, it could explain why they prefer having a car around them to flying.
Saturday, September 6, 2003 10:26 AM
I've only ridden one of each at SFWOA and have to say I enjoyed the floorless more.

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Saturday, September 6, 2003 11:02 AM
Uh...floorless coasters do *not* get better capacity than flying coasters. There's absolutely no reason that floorless coasters would have higher capacity (and, in fact, if you take two smaller rides, BDK and S:UF, the flyer actually has higher capacity). Capacity is not the reason.


Saturday, September 6, 2003 11:39 AM
Turbo - there are currently only seven floorless coasters in the U.S., compared to six flyers. It doesn't seem that floorless rides are that much more popular.

The reason I think people have compared flyers to stand-ups is because of the questionable longevity of the popularity of the novel rider position. In other words, if the unique rider position is the only draw, the rides might not be as popular, or stay as popular as some other, more traditional rides.

I rode Riddler's Revenge a few years ago and thought it was a great ride, but also thought it might as well have been a sit-down ride. Not only is the layout comparable to a sit-down, but because you're so well-secured in the harness, you can barely appreciate the sensation of standing.

I've only ridden S:UF at SFGAm among the flyers, but I thought it was very fun, and that it could become the next B:TR. But the particular B&M design that has been cloned is pretty blah... the pretzel loop is fantastic, and I liked the inline twist, but the ride is pretty short, and there isn't much to it other than those two elements.

It really remains to be seen if the popularity of flyers will follow a similar path to that of stand-ups. But inverts caught on like wildfire, and I'm sure every park would want a 4-D ride if they could only work out the kinks. I think the bottom line is that any coaster needs a successful layout before it can depend on other gimmicks like novel rider position.

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Saturday, September 6, 2003 11:43 AM
I'd take the floorless because, while flyers are unique, you can do a lot more element-wise with a floorless. Floorless designs can go faster, higher, and flip in a larger variety of ways. With the flyer, you're limited to the types of things you can do by the lower g tolerance due to the flying position. Of course this is just based on what we've seen so far from the flyer, which is still a very new design and hasn't been taken to its full potential yet. Perhaps I'll change my mind if a big park like CP spends some cash for an awesome custom flyer that has some new elements in it.

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Saturday, September 6, 2003 12:58 PM
I have been one B&M Flyer (Superman at GADV), and one Vekoma Flyer (X-Flight). I really liked the Pretzel Loop, but that is it, they are both pretty boring.

I love the floorless coasters, Medusa East is awesome, and B:KF is a great ride.
*** This post was edited by stopher 9/6/2003 4:59:01 PM ***

Saturday, September 6, 2003 2:35 PM
I've rode X-Flight for the flyer, and Knight Flight & Kraken for the floorless, and I really love the floorless a LOT better. To me, while it was fun, X-Flight was painful and disorienting at times. The floorless, (esp. Kraken) rocked. You get a different perspective from being seated above able to see the track. I can't explain it, but the inversions felt a lot cooler too.
Saturday, September 6, 2003 3:49 PM
I know what you are talking about Chadley. The Cobra Roll inversion on a Floorless is a completely different experience than on a regular inverted.

X-Flight leaves alot to be desired, it is a Vekoma after all.

Saturday, September 6, 2003 5:40 PM
I definately prefer floorless to flying, as flying coasters just don't do enough for me. Floorless coasters have only been around since 1999 and are based on "twisters" like Kumba and Hulk, so most of the "testing" was already done. Hopefully, the flyers can start doing more elements soon, or they will be the new stand ups.
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Saturday, September 6, 2003 7:11 PM

coasterdude318 said:
Uh...floorless coasters do *not* get better capacity than flying coasters. There's absolutely no reason that floorless coasters would have higher capacity (and, in fact, if you take two smaller rides, BDK and S:UF, the flyer actually has higher capacity). Capacity is not the reason.


Every floorless I've been on moved people through more quickly than the flyers. The load and unload time on both S:UF and XF were both at least twice as long as the floorless rides.

Since you really offer no proof to convince me it's not capacity, just your opinion, I think I'll stick by my original statement.

Saturday, September 6, 2003 7:16 PM
If I had a choice between riding Medusa or S:UF at Great Adventure, Medusa would win everytime. It's got more elements, moves faster, and is a lot more exciting. I really liked S:KC at Fiesta Texas also.
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Saturday, September 6, 2003 8:10 PM

Turbo said:
..Flyers just might be the next Standup coaster. I personally love flying coasters...

...a flyer is in a totally different position, while floorless is just a regular sitdown without the floor( which, IMO, gives NO extra thrill).

I'm one of the people who call the flyer the next stand-up.

My arguement would be that the floorless is the new sit-down looper. I agree 100% that the floorless thing adds next to nothing to the ride, it's just a different style sitdown train.

The flying thing feels too gimmicky (like the stand-up) - these rides don't deliver great rides, they deliver great gimmicks. Once that wears off, you're left with a so-so ride.

Once the "floorless" gimmick has been sold into the dirt, you're still left with a great sit-down looper (in most cases). Floorless coasters don't generally rely on the floorless gimmick for the actual ride. It's a great selling point to get heads through the gate, but the ride is usually standard sit-down fare - that's a good thing.

Nothing beats the basics.

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Saturday, September 6, 2003 8:13 PM
I also much prefer the Floorless over the Flyer, and I am a fan of the Flyers! But I just think the overall ride experience on a Floorless coaster beats that of a Flyer.

Now, if they'd start making some more imaginative layouts for a Flyer, rather than just cloning them and sticking them on a midway, then I think the Flyer experience will get better.

Likewise, the best Floorless coasters, in my opinion, are the one's with unique layouts, especially Kraken. S:KC and B:KF also are pretty nice layouts. I'm not crazy about the Medusa (Scream) layout, but then the originals tend to be more bland. Now with Dorney's new custom Floorless, we are going to see another coaster use a creative design and layout, and I think it will end up being really great.

I think that's where Flyers need to go to avoid that "standup" stigma. Add some more inventive layouts, that really use the Flyer concept to it's fullest (weave it through trees, over water, and just above the ground for example). Then, you will see the Flyer popularity increase.

Take care and God bless! :)

Saturday, September 6, 2003 8:18 PM

I'd take a floorless over a flyer anyday!! Anyday!
Saturday, September 6, 2003 9:53 PM
I've only been on X Flight and found it to be a very different experience than what I anticipated. I spent most of the ride pondering the strength of the "Black Bondage Wear " restraints and thinking how uncomfortable and unnatural the whole ride was. Everytime it flipped us onto our backs I was thankful. I also didn't like the strain on my neck if I tried to look "ahead" at the track instead of down at the ground.
I thoroughly enjoyed BKF, but I would have loved it just as much if there was indeed a floor under my feet. I was pleasantly surprised to get a pop of airtime right after the midcourse brakes. Air on a B&M is a good thing!

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