Flashpass prices at Great Adventure have gone through the roof

Heck, I'd've paid money! (It took me 1hr 50min arrival to departure.)

Maybe I am exaggerating a little.

It's probably about 15% longer waits if you don't use flashpass.

I still think that 15% longer is too long, especially when lines are sometimes on hour long to begin with. But I am starting to respect the pro-flashpass side a little more, while at the same time keeping my opinion that it is blackmail.

In finding the 15.5% number (the average between Gonch's low end 6% and my high end 25%), could this mean that the park sells flashpass to about 15% of the parks guests?

I still say that's too many and it really isn't helping the long line problems at the park. making people wait longer so a few can ride about twice as much (or even much more where gold is concerned) is still line cutting, imho.

Brian Noble said:
Matt, I'm actually asking a much broader question---this could be in any context.

No, no, I completely understand what you're getting at, I was just making a half-joke pointing out that 99.9999% of sane people would immediately recognize spending hours in cars and planes and thousands of dollars to ride rollie coasters is not anywhere near a mainstream idea of "good value."

Lord Gonchar said:
Guess where I went tonight. A restaurant.

A new Texas Roadhouse opened right across the parking lot from my wife's hotel and we decided to check it out this evening (mostly because they hooked her up with free meal coupons - another conditional perk we often take advantage of ;) )

Anyway, they have a pretty badass system for queuing the waiting diners (no more of those lame vibrating pagers) where each party gets assigned a number based on their needs (party size, etc) and is issued a ticket with their place in line and an approximate wait time.

The whole thing seemed very 'theme park' to me. So did the groups of people filling the lobby, entrance, waiting area, and parking lot waiting for their turn. Honestly, it got me thinking of this very thread and I noticed this sign on the wall. (go ahead and take a quick look)

Sounds a lot like a virtual queue system to me. Works just like one too.

Quite simply, if you're there standing in line for 25 minutes for a table. I could have called in advance and secured a virtual spot in the line. I'd show up a few moments before my assigned time and walk right up ahead of you and be taken to my table.

Just found that pretty interesting given this conversation.

And how much extra do people using the call ahead service have to pay? $45 a person? Is that amount added to your check? Or do you have to pony up the bills before they'll seat your ass down? ;)

If they were smart they'd add a "Call Ahead Surcharge" to your bill.

Even if it is 15%, you add less than 4 minutes to a half hour wait. That's IF every single VQer is double booking every second of the day on rides that are at capacity and VQ is sold out every single second of the day.

Seems unlikely.

matt. said:No, no, I completely understand what you're getting at, I was just making a half-joke pointing out that 99.9999% of sane people would immediately recognize spending hours in cars and planes and thousands of dollars to ride rollie coasters is not anywhere near a mainstream idea of "good value."

What I find funny is people ask me "don't those park admissions add up". Not even a little bit, compared to the planes, airport parking, rental cars, hotels, food, souvenirs - not including the leave time from work. Clearly, this hobby is not a good value. :)

LostKause said:
while at the same time keeping my opinion that it is blackmail.

If you could demonstrate that the operations declined after the implementation of Fast Pass systems you might have a point. Especially in Six Flags' case, their operations sucked for years before the Flash Pass came along. If their management was smart enough to think far enough in advance to slow down their operations so that people would appreciate a virtual queue system in several years time I don't think they would be in their current financial mess.

Your problem is that you keep comparing the Fastpass experience to the non-Fastpass experience. Whether it is right or wrong doesn't matter; because Six Flags doesn't sell the non-Fastpass product anymore. They went from a one ticket fits all system to a small (regular admission), medium (Fastpass), large(Gold Fastpass), extra large (VIP) system.

Everyone goes into the day knowing full well which product they purchased and should not consider it "unfair" when someone who ponied up the cash for more rides steps in front of them. Because you have memories of when the line reaching back to the first switchback meant a 10 minute wait, you long for the "good-old-days" since that same line length now means a 15 minute wait. It is not unfair, merely different.

AT

--[geezer voice] Back in my day there wasn't any of this POP nonsense...you paid for each ride with Tickets...Tickets bought with hard earned money....You didn't run around willy nilly jumping on every ride you came to...you had to stop and think about if it was worth it or not......

That's good stuff, top to bottom. :)

That's what she said.

I somewhat agree with a lot of points you made, Alan T. That's why I haven't gone into a SF in many years. It's much too expensive (to me) to get the experience level I require, which I can get at other parks for nothing. The only thing I require is that cutting in front of me and others be against the rules.

I am not the only one who feels that it's blackmail, although I was probably the first to point it out and am the most passionate about the subject apparent from threads like these.

It's $15 to park, $60 to get in the gate, and then another $45 for flashpass, which I see as a requirement if you don't want anyone to cut in front of you. It cost's me $120 to get into a SF park...

Compared to Kings Island? It's $10 for parking, $46 to get into the gate, and a "wait-your-turn, everyone-is-the-same, no-one's-gonna-cut-in-front-of-you line system" like you would see at virtuially every business in the world. No one cuts in front of me at Kings island for only $56!

Is any SF park worth more than twice what KI, KD, or CP charges?

(Note that I didn't include other expenses like gas, hotel, and food. I also didn't factor in discounts, which you can get from most any park.)

Flashpass is working for the chain and those who can afford to use it. It is not working for those who don't use it or refuse to visit as often because of it. I'm not the only one, but as it's been pointed out so many times over the years, SF dosen't give a crap about me because I don't spend as much $ as others. It makes perfect business sense.

I agree with a lot of opposing opinions about this, but from a different perspective.

^Unless you come on a Saturday, when Gold Passers can cut you just because.

I really dont understand the opposition to the Flash Passes, if you dont want to be bothered by them then go on a day when you wont need them (ie weekday in May/June, Fri/Sun in Oct) otherwise expect a long wait.

Everyone on this site can type up the first sentance to an anwser on when to visit a park on a non crowded day: Dont go on Saturday, and try not to go from late June-early Auguest.

My experience is that I can't find a non-busy day at SFGAdv...

A few years ago, I went on a Thursday the first week of school in PA. I didn't know when school started in NJ and NY, but I didn't expect the 1 and 2 hour waits, so I got a flashpass for the first and only time.

The dirty looks and curse words flying in my direction did not create a pleasant experience. The worst was Chiller, which had a 2-3 hour wait. They were filling entire trains with us flashpassers from the exit and the people in line were getting really pissed. They wanted to kill us.

That is just one of many examples of my flashpass experience. The rides wereclosed or consistantly breaking down (superman, Nitro, Ka), and so some of my flashpass times were postponed or canceled altogether.

Also the lines had no wait times posted, so I had a hunch that my flashpass wait times were exaggerated for some reason. I noticed some people getting in line for Nitro after my flashpass scan, and they were aff the ride and making their way to another ride before my time came. Nitro closed soon and I missed my time.

People were waiting for an hour for rotting lumber when it finally opend late at night (1 side running). My flashpass time was 10 minutes. I have no idea how that was fair to the people in line.

I asked a suit-tie guy why half the rides in the park were closed and he replied that college kids went back to shcool and they were short staffed. They had no problem charging me full price for half of a park that was overcrowded to begin with.

But, as Gonch pointed out, the park is much different than my last visit a few years ago. I still hold a grudge agains the park for all the money I spent to get there and at the park, not feeling I recieved my moneys worth.

Don't even get me started on SFO. lol

LostKause said:
It's $15 to park, $60 to get in the gate, and then another $45 for flashpass, which I see as a requirement if you don't want anyone to cut in front of you. It cost's me $120 to get into a SF park...

Compared to Kings Island? It's $10 for parking, $46 to get into the gate, and a "wait-your-turn, everyone-is-the-same, no-one's-gonna-cut-in-front-of-you line system" like you would see at virtuially every business in the world. No one cuts in front of me at Kings island for only $56!

For me the reduced waits and lack of time blown in line is more than worth the price.

I absolutely feel that the $15 to park, $30 a head (x4) and $110 for a Flash Pass that we paid this past June was worth it for a day at SFGadv. (That's $245 for my family) - probably the one of the best cost-to-experience ratios of any of the 25 or 30 parks we hit this year.

Hell, we have CF platinum passes and get free parking and only hit KI three times this year...and it's less than an hour away.

Come on! 4 minutes for Medusa, 9 minutes for Ka!

I loves me some Q-bot. :)

LostKause said:

But, as Gonch pointed out, the park is much different than my last visit a few years ago. I still hold a grudge agains the park for all the money I spent to get there and at the park, not feeling I recieved my moneys worth.

Despite living around only 50 minutes from the park, 2008 was my first year having a SP because of the issues you mentioned especially the long lines. I really think that the park had shorter lines then in the past thanks to better operations. Other than Kingda Ka which I skipped about half my visits due to the line, 14 out of 17 visits were all with waits of 15 - 20 minutes at the most and in many cases walk ons. Those visits were Saturday's in April, weekdays in May, weekdays in early June, a Sunday in June (school night), a Tuesday in July, a Sunday in September, 2 Friday nights in October and closing day. The 3 days with bad crowds were a weekday in April (Spring Break and huge Jewish group at the park), a Tuesday in late August and a Saturday in September. I averaged around 17 coaster rides a trip this season and of all those rides (246), I only waited more than 30 minutes for 5 of them none of which were over 40 minutes.

I'm not saying the park doesn't get horrible lines but I avoided all summer weekends, all Frightfest Saturday and Sunday's (except closing day) asd almost the entire time kids were on summer vacation which seem to be the worst time for lines.

Okay, I still don't get the Q-bots...lol

Do they work all day, or just for a certain amount of rides?

My only experience with the "Flashpass" system is at SFKK, and for $10, we get a small card with 5 sections to it. You go to the exit of a ride, and then the operator tears off one of the sections. When you've used it on 5 rides, your done.

Is Q-bot like this, or do you get unlimited rides?

I have some catching up to do...;)

Q-bots work for the entire day.

Eventually pricing like this will turn away the guests that don't want to pay for it/can't afford it because it is taking away from their park experience. I personally will not go to a Six Flags park now that uses it because i realize that the line will be longer for all of the major attractions unless you pay an amount that is equal to or greater than the gate admission price!

Gouging works for short term profits, but not for long term profits. Six Flags is definitely price gouging at this point with all of their fees. High parking, high locker fees, required lockers (bascially charging $1 to ride a ride that you have already supposedly paid for with your "unlimited" pass, the Flash Pass).

This system definitely makes the park experience lower quality for the majority of the guests (the one's that aren't using it) as it increases wait time for those that don't use it. Six Flags has had a problem with experience quality in the past, and this system does nothing to improve that. Eventually enough people have a bad experience, they will find something else to do with their entertainment $.

super7* said:
Eventually enough people have a bad experience, they will find something else to do with their entertainment $.

Maybe you've missed the rest of the thread but these systems have been around for quite a while now, and this increase in prices for Flashpass probably indicates that demand can sustain higher customer costs because it's so popular. If what you're predicting hasn't happened in 10 years, how long do you think it's going to take? Can you put a time frame on it which is more specific than "eventually"?

Also, there's generally a big difference in "I think this is price gouging" and "I think this is too much to pay." If it really is gouging, how do you explain stuff like this?

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/55030.aspx

matt. said:
Maybe you've missed the rest of the thread but these systems have been ..

Maybe he simply disagrees with some things said in the rest of the thread.

Also, there's generally a big difference in "I think this is price gouging" and "I think this is too much to pay." If it really is gouging, how do you explain stuff like this?

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/55030.aspx

Maybe the reason that the park is saying that they are seeing higher profits is because they are -...wait for it...- price gouging. That and blackmailing their customers into needing to buy an "upgrade" in order to not get cut in line.

Or maybe you all are right and not very many people care that they have to wait 15.5% longer to get on a ride and therefore can ride 15.5% less rides than if they paid for flashpass. If that's the case, I feel bad that no one cares that the value of a day at SF has gone so far down.