Feeling safe with accident at SFNE

RWreck: Height and weight tell you nothing about a person's body habitus, only how they impact a scale underneath them.

It doesn't tell you if a person carries their weight in their hips, butt, belly or if they're built like a WWE performer.

So you really have no clue what you're talking about.

-CO
(formerly a 275-pounder)

*** Edited 2/22/2005 1:51:37 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

*sigh*

Here we go again..

What makes you...ANY of you...an authority on whether any given person should or should not ride a coaster? What makes you believe you have the answer as to just where the lap bar should be or how long the seat belt should be, or any such details?

Take responsibility for your own riding. You can ride most coasters safely even if the restraints are deficient, so there really is no reason to worry excessively. Worry about what you are doing, consider what precautions you will take as a rider, and concentrate on getting back alive yourself. Don't waste your time...and ours...with the whole useless argument about who should or shouldn't ride or what riders should or shouldn't do. This is rapidly degenerating into a culture war between the little people and the big people, with a few people who seem to think of amusement rides as a form of S&M thrown in for good measure. It's not doing anybody a bit of good, and it really needs to stop.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you cant ride responsibly when a train goes through a brake run without stopping. Everytime I board one of the superman coasters I am thinking about what would happen if the brakes fail again. I dont think that on Phantom's revenge, which has the same setup (on brake run before the station.)

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CoastaPlaya said:
RWreck: Height and weight tell you nothing about a person's body habitus, only how they impact a scale underneath them.

It doesn't tell you if a person carries their weight in their hips, butt, belly or if they're built like a WWE performer.

So you really have no clue what you're talking about.

-CO
(formerly a 275-pounder)

*** Edited 2/22/2005 1:51:37 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

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Honestly, how many people who are 350 pounds are really that solid, all muscle mass? Especially with a 48" waist.
Oh, I understand, I am hovering aroun 200lbs and I'm still quite thin, just fairly muscular, so I know that weight alone isn't the biggest factor.

But... I'm taking Dave's advice.

Taking Dave's advice wouldn't involve posting. Then again, a war requires fanboys and flames. We're still discussing stuff. Anyway...

You could have a large belly and waist, a flat butt and skinny chicken legs. You inhale, maneuver the bar under your belly, buckle the belt and you're good to go.

Or you could have a lot less belly, large hips and a round butt. You could have a smaller waist and far more problems.

Look at my user photo. Do you think a guy my size (6'1", 205) would have trouble boarding CC:MR? Yeah, a little--cuz I don't have a flat butt and chicken legs. Same reason I despise those PTC coaches with individual ratcheting lap bars and the chicken-legged love 'em.

Body types vary widely; height and weight don't give you enough to know. That's exactly why the most recent BMI charts include a disclaimer in the midrange weights--outside of the extremes, there's a lot it doesn't tell you.

-'Playa

I am right around the same dimensions as you, and I too have more difficulty with leg space. You discussed maneuvering and whatnot, I've done that a few times to fit my legs in, and I find it to provide an uncomfortable ride. My stepfather also is a fairly big guy, but his main issue is OTSRs against his broad shoulders. So yea, its not just weight or waist dimensions that can bring problems. Should I ride certain coasters with tight room? Eh, I can deal with the bit of stress on the legs as long as my lapbar comes down I suppose.

By taking Dave's advice, I had already began to relpy to you when I read it, and I just want to make sure not to offend folks. I'd hate to be in the war, seeing that I'm in between.

Besides, I've got Wednesday penciled in for abusive name-calling ;)

Perhaps someone should post a thread titled,

"Feeling safe with tens of thousands of accidents on US roadways every day."

More people die in car accidents EVERY 15 MINUTES than the number of people who died in the incident at SFNE this year. (41,821 / 366 / 24 / 4 = 1.19)

(2000 automobile accident statistics)

I can see my post has caused opened back up a heated debate which was not my goal. So, additional information may be in order. First of all, if I remember correctly, I rode SROS in 2001 both parks in one trip (had a free Six Flags pass after they bought Sea World Ohio). This was after the first accident at SFDL but before the latest incidents. There were seat belts on the trains at the time. If you remember, the lower seats had much longer seat belt than the upper seats. I was able to ride in the front and once buckled was able to tighten the seat belt slightly. The lap bar came down on my lap. It didn't get caught on my belly. I mentioned my story because I still don't think weight in and of itself is the problem with the restraints failing. I think improper riding position is the problem. People not getting the lap bars on their laps and not having the seat belts low and across the hips.

Personally, I don't think weight is the issue, and I don't think "improper use of the lap bar" is an issue. But that is just an opinion. Contemplate this:

a) How are lap bars supposed to work, anyway?

b) Is a tighter lap bar necessarily safer?

c) Is a loose lap bar necessarily more dangerous?

d) Assuming the bar does not open, what can cause the lap bar to fail?

Those are rhetorical questions, as the answers are actually quite complicated. But think about them. Think about what you know about rides, what you know about the lap bar systems you have experienced, and how they really work. Think functionally. Think scientifically. Are you surprised?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

there should be no arguements about this topic at all. If your fighting about a simle little topic like this it must mean you have insecurities about yourself

PERIOD

Answers IMHO

A. The lapbar is supposed to keep the rider from straightening out durring airtime. This can only happen if the bar is in proper possition to begin with. I would guess within a inch of the top of the upper thigh.

B. NO! If the bar isn't able to get in proper possition and is on top of the gut it's purpose is totally lost as the body will straighten and not be stopped by the thigh.

C., Darn straight it is. Expecially if it's a foot off the persons thighs as some claims in the reports following the incident said. Within reason it shouldn't be a problem though.

D. Well the lapbar first would not work if the rider wasn't in a upright possiton, He would submarine out from under it if for some reason he could not remain upright (With no sideboards of course) As I understand Intamins T bars they are hydrolic and double locked. I don't see the lapbar failing as the sole cause of anything but other possibilities lye in the fact of the seating arrangement clearances between seat and bar possition ect. Truth is, I can't put my finger exactly on it other than the seat bottom might be too short or floor space to keep the rider in a proper riding possition.

Chuck, who feels some other particular wood coaster restraints are far more defective in their design

CHARLES - GOOD ANSWER

EVERYONE, READ CHARLES'S REPLEY

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW

One thing not mentioned above that is critical to the safety of a lap bar restraint system is leg position. (Though CN hints at it.) Basically, your legs and your trunk have to remain at approximately right angles for a lap bar to function properly as a restraint. Anything that allows the rider to not be in this position defeats the purpose of a lap bar. This could be excessive girth not allowing the bar to lower, girth too small for the lowest lap bar position, or improper leg position due to car design (usually too much leg room, or rider contortion.

I know some tall people hate them, but the Premier rides lap bar restraint system on their launched coaster is a great example of a lap bar system designed for maximum security. If you can close the restraint, you could hang upside down all day and not fall out.

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Annoying said:
there should be no arguements about this topic at all. If your fighting about a simle little topic like this it must mean you have insecurities about yourself

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Funny, I don't see any arguements (sic) here. Nobody's fighting. Maybe a little Annoying trolling, but that won't be happening again.

I also think Charles said it very well. It also makes me wonder if it is an apple vs pear problem. I was more of an apple and as such my hips were smaller than my gut. Instead of running into my gut, most lap bars would ride under my gut with my gut on top. With pear shaped people, hips and thighs are bigger than waist which potentially leads to the lap bar resting higher than it should. By shortening the seat belts, fewer pears will ride because they carry their weight through the hips where the seat belt goes.

The Premier launches with the retrofits are unbelievably safe designs IMO, not in small part due to the fact that the *seats* are designed to keep your butt low, which really does force the nice safe Z. Ironic considering the seats didn't require modifying to go to the lap/shin bars. Comfy trains, I could ride JJ/Poltergeist all day and all night...(note to SFFT: invest in getting another second train for Polty...:))

Should be noted that even with inversions, the shin bar isn't really *necessary* per se, but it does make people FEEL safer...I am one of those LOVE that *moment* during the inlines on the retrofited Chilla though...:)

Back towards topic: What makes me *feel* safe? Checking my own restraints...;)

*** Edited 2/23/2005 6:29:01 AM UTC by rollergator***