Fastpass return time enforcement

So it's exactly what I suggested in my last post - indirect pay for benefits.

I get it. I was just demonstrating that Disney gets it too. Some have suggested that Disney would never change for fear of pissing off the "warm fuzzies." I surmise that Disney will piss on the "warm fuzzies" if that is what is needed to compete. They will do their best to make the piss taste like lemonade. Which if you think about it...is what Disney is best equipped to do.

Aamilj said:
Say that 10 times...knowing that your main competitor is offering a "ride immediately" choice. Which park is offering the superior guest experience?

If I were presented with the choice of going to Sea World and riding every ride immediately, or going to any Disney World park and waiting in line, I'm going to WDW. There's more to a "superior guest experience" than the length of a line. And everybody's idea of a "superior guest experience" is different.

Actually there is nobody of sound mind that believes "wait long or wait longer" is superior to "ride now."

You might disagree about whether the financial cost is worth it. But given the option for an apples to apples comparison (I can ride Space Mountain now, wait an hour now, or wait 4 hours and come back for my ride window)... there is a clear superior guest experience. Disney has it on their cruise lines. Universal has it at their theme parks.

Aamilj said:

Say that 10 times...knowing that your main competitor is offering a "ride immediately" choice. Which park is offering the superior guest experience?

The park that offers a ride immediately choice is not offering a superior guest experience at all, because they can only do that for a few of their guests before it becomes the same thing as waiting in line. They may be offering a great experience for a few people in the park, but everyone else's wait gets longer, and will become a less-than-superior experience overall. I think that's why Disney has been reluctant to do something like that yet. Can you imagine how long the already-too-long standby lines would be if Disney let some people skip the line?

I'm not going to get started on it. It's already been said years and years ago.

It is more than a few Kause. Every guest at 3 good size hotels get the benifit. But your point is known, accepted, and valid.

This does nothing to change the current fact. At the top end, there is one superior line management system. The only way to beat "ride now" as an experience is "ride twice now"...or more. Universal has it. Disney has it on cruises.

You can argue all sorts of ancillary issues. Cost, fairness, ride quality, etc. All are fair criticisms, opinions, etc. But the fact is Disney parks do not offer a competative top end line management experience.

Knowing and accepting this reality, I opine that Disney will have no choice but to change their system to allow a " ride now" option. Or let their competition take the guests for which guest experience is more important than ride quality, etc.

Maybe Disney can afford to let this market go? But they have a lot of hotel rooms to fill.

It took 12 years for Disney to change Fastpass enforcement policy. My opinion is it won't be another 12 years before Disney Parks offer a pay to cut option. How that lemonade tastes...remains to be seen.

Aamilj said:
You can argue all sorts of ancillary issues. Cost, fairness, ride quality, etc. All are fair criticisms, opinions, etc. But the fact is Disney parks do not offer a competative top end line management experience.

I agree.

But who says they have to?

They do offer a top-end line management experience, though I suppose you can argue whether or not it is "competitive". They have two levels of VIP Tour. One gives you the services of a tour guide for the day, but no "unusual" access to attractions. There is another version of the VIP tour, more expensive, that also includes unlimited access to the Fastpass return lines and transportation anywhere on property you want to go. This second version is relatively new---there was a time when Disney would not do that for any price. But, apparently they have found their price because I have personally seen guests on this second version of the tour getting "carded" into FP returns by Guest Services CMs.

Here is a description of the two offerings:
http://allears.net/ae/issue543.htm

Before anyone wigs out about the prices, don't. No, these experiences are not meant for the average guest. But, there are plenty of guests for whom one of these tours would not be too expensive to contemplate. And, they needn't be CEOs or celebrities.

If those aren't per-person prices, then I'd say they are obtainable to some subset of normal humans. With five or six people, I think it would be totally worth it.

I agree with Jeff, and think it would be a great deal. About $300 per hour for six hours is only $1,800. Divide that by six or eight and it's not bad at all per person.

Kings Island's VIP is around $300 per person for a six hour tour, if I recall correctly. That's about the same as this Disney thing... assuming that Disney is not charging $300 per hour er person. Then it's just ridiculous. lol

And I think that any front-of-the-line access should be priced about that much. $300 per person per six-hour tour is perfect. It keeps everyone from doing it. The more people who do it, the worse experience it become for those who don't, imho.

I agree.But who says they have to?

Not I. I just opine they WILL.

The other option is to let the competition service the high end customer looking for the best and easiest ride access. Concentrating on the masses and ignoring the high end is also a profitable venture. It is indeed a fair business model. Motel 6, Denny's, Hyundai are but a few examples of many businesses that follow this model.

But I'm guessing that model is more the Six Flags/regional park strategy versus a Disney. Disney has invested an awful lot into high end hotels, world class attractions, etc. Their guest service and attention to detail are legendary. They have always offered "the best" at a cost.

It would be counterproductive to offer "the best" everywhere except in the line management arena. Unless they have decided to change the direction of the entire brand, their hands are tied no matter how many "warm fuzzies" they might need to trample.

Fastpass is the horse and buggy. It has served people wonderfully for the past decade. At its peak, it was the best of the best. Unfortunately for those who cling to tradition, something better has come along. Maybe there is room for both? Fastpass for the proletariat and pay to cut for the Bourgeois. Sounds like there may be some of this happening in the "tour" arena already. But they are nowhere near getting the bang for their buck that is possible/probable.

I agree 100% that the hotel guest is where the real benefits will come. Universal already has that one figured out.

On a side note... Has pay to cut hurt Universal in any way? I'm not trying to be a smart alec. But I don't recall hearing about a large backlash? Has their bottom line and attendance, etc been affected? Have they lost a lot of the proletariat visits?

Would Disney lose those visitors if they decided to go the same route with their line management systems? It seems to me that catering to the high end, in a sick sort of way, also helps attract the masses. Everybody wants to experience the best. If the cost of hanging with a winner means you have to tolerate a little longer lines...so be it.

I've forgot a lot of economics 101. There is an elastic, and inelastic spectrum for demand. I'm guessing high end amusement park experiences trend toward the inelastic end of that spectrum. In other words, Disney could double their admission prices this evening across the board, and their attendance (demand) would not experience a proportional decrease tomorrow. That is one of the economic benefits of dealing/branding toward the top end.

If those aren't per-person prices,

They are not.

What is the max size group then if it's not per-person price limited? That actually sounds like a an interesting thing to do.

(and yes, I am still part of the 99%)

I vaguely recall a ten-person limit, but don't hold me to it.

No sarcasm here, that is quite a good deal.

Even for a family the price is not insane. Compare the six hour whole-enchilada VIP tour (about $450 per person for a family of four) with a day at Discovery cove ($300 per person), or the new 3 hour backstage tour of the Animal Kingdom Safari ($190-$250 per person).

Edited to add: you probably have to add park admission to the VIP tour, but you do to the AK tour as well.

I agree that the price seems reasonable. I'm checking into it for my March/April trip. Now the question is when the heck will Disney advertise this?

Just ask for it.

Apparently, as of today FastPasses have the following printed on them...

"Not able to accomodate late arrivals"

...right under the time and date.

EDIT - here's a photo.

There are also signs on the kiosks. They did not mess around.

http://twitpic.com/8sykfn

Well, that seems fair enough.