Fastpass return time enforcement

You'll probably never know just how helpful that link is for me, OhioStater. I hate it when Chafed unmentionables ruin my amusement park experience.

In all seriousness, I'm also a customer. I'm a marathoner, and back "in the day" we runners used vaseline...this stuff is great, and its pretty waterproof. Nothing to be ashamed of. :)

After all, runners also use these....

:)

All I know is that in reality, Disney gives me lots of "ride now" options (though they are not all rides). My observation is that on visiting Disneyland during Christmas break, the only rides that seem to have insanely long waits (apart from Dumbo) are the ones that have FastPass. And when those lines are at their worst, enforcing return times will go a long way towards making those waits a lot more pleasant because the lines will actually *move*.

Dumbo, unfortunately, is probably a lost cause. Although doubling it up and giving it a cool waiting area in Florida might make it less likely to prompt parents to do very nasty things to each other and to their offspring...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Who points out that a ride capacity of 2,400 PPH and a single turnstile is probably the best way to eliminate long lines....

I think you need to get used to the idea that a popular ride will have a long wait, managed queue or not, standing in line or not. If they happen to manage the queue of a popular ride with a high mix of Fastpasses, your best option is to play along in the system. If you don't, you'll be waiting. And we'll laugh at you. :)

I am of the opinion that time based systems like Fastpass will eventually give way to money based systems like pay to cut. Impossible to say which opinion of what is or is not fair is superior... Each type of system has legitimate shortfalls...for which quantifying importance is impossible and subjective. When observed from a strict guest experience perspective we can argue in circles...and never agree.

This decision will eventually be made on the almighty dollar. The fact that Universal is able to charge more for line skip privileges than park admission on certain days is good indication of the demand for this service, as well as the profit potential. Stockholder satisfaction will eventually trump guest satisfaction. Even if you believe that Fastpass the BEST system for park experience (I do not)...it will be hard to argue it is the most profitable system to stockholders.

Fastpass has been around for years. Pay to cut is still in it's relevant infancy when compared to the timed based Fastpass. Profit, simplicity, and probably equal OR better guest satisfactions will lead to the dollar becoming the control for demand...not time. When pressed to action by competition, Disney will choose the most profitable system. Particularly since the guests who have the most money to spend, will assuredly prefer a money based system versus time-based.

I still say that Disney is just charging everyone to use their Fastpass, unlike, say, Six Flags, who gives people a choice to purchase it or not. Disney Fastpass is like free coke at Holiday World, in my opinion.

Aamilj said:
Fastpass has been around for years. Pay to cut is still in it's relevant infancy when compared to the timed based Fastpass.

1. Just for the record, Fastpass began in 1999 and the first SF park (SFOG) to use Q-bot was doing so in 2001. Pay-to-cut came practically on the heels of Fastpass.

2. The spending time/spending money comparison has been discussed ad naseum in the past around here. To get on a ride you have to give up one or the other - it's as simple as that. There will always be options to spend either for access.

3. In all honesty, I find the subject incredibly fascinating, but you're not getting so much response because you're saying things, throwing out ideas and bringing up predictions/theories that we've talked about countless times in the past decade. (and that's not your fault)

Even if you believe that Fastpass the BEST system for park experience (I do not)...it will be hard to argue it is the most profitable system to stockholders.

I'd wager that Disney will never charge for it directly. The system will remain free, but increased access will come to those who spend more (ticket upgrades, hotels upgrades, etc). There will definitely be incentive to spend more, but hiding behind that 'free' thing just has too many warm fuzzies attached.

I forgot about warm fuzzies.

And Gonch is right. I have talked about this in the past to the point that I don't feel the need to add to the discussion as much as I could. You would have had a field day with us five or ten years ago. That's a problem I am finding with CoasterBuzz presently. I have talked many controversial subject to death.

I could make you blood boil with my "Flashpass is a scam" tirade, or my "Why would a park who charges to cut want to run the rides at full capacity" episodes, but the show is over; mine anyways, and in a way, I find that pretty sad.

Is that fair to the newer posters? I don't think so, but neither is Fastpass or Flashpass.

I remember the good ol' days fondly. lol

The only way Disney will ever charge for queue management is if they can do it without pissing off everyone else.

They might just have to wait long enough for it to become commonly accepted in other areas of business. Providing different access at different price points is happening all over the travel and leisure industry. As the culture shifts, Disney's "pissing people off" problem simply disappears.

Disney is already doing pay to cut on cruises. Those who pay for the higher rate cabins get on/ off and Custom's privileges for the line at each port. For their own island they get the best lounge chairs, etc. So we know that with cruises, they are more than willing to match competator policies to please and keep high end customers. Warm fuzzy does not apply on the ship.

Brian is correct. Disney will wait a bit longer than others until it is socially accepted. But we may already be there. There is certainly no evidence to suggest Universal's policy is hurting them financially or reputationaly.

Disney simply cannot and will not sit back and watch their competition provide the superior experience just so they can appease the "warm fuzzy" crowd. How many stockholders do you know that are concerned about "warm fizzles" in lieu of profit?

And there is no debate about what major amusement park provides the most superior top end experience. Take morals, class envy, and every other issue out of the picture and concentrate on just Park Experience. From that perspective Unversal's stay on site policy is the best. Disney cannot allow this inequity of top end experiences continue. Their entire reputation is built on the idea that they provide the top guest experience. This is simply not the case at the top end.

Jeff said:

but it's probably more like water cooler talk:

Considering the longevity of this thread, it's a water cooler that never runs dry.

I'm not sure I believe the conspiracy theory, but I thought about this. Disney has a problem on their hands. How do you piss off the least amount of the "warm fuzzy" crowd while simultaneously keeping the high end customer?

Moment to state...regardless of opinions...Disney HAS to appease and keep the high end. Lose the high end and you lose the reputation. Lose the reputation and it trickles to the "warm fuzzy" crowd. Everybody wants to go to THE BEST. Potter has already placed some doubt about the pecking order in Orlando.

Anyhow, there is no time based system that can offer a top end experience that a dollar based system can. You can argue fairness issues, etc. but the PARK EXPERIENCE for the end user is always better for the guy who can cut when and where he wants without limitations. "Warm Fuzzy" guy might be jealous...but top end guy is much happier than when he is when he is told to come back at some future time.

Disney knows they need at least a skeleton fee based system to appease the high end market. They want to do this with the least amount of grief from the "warm fuzzies.". How do you do this?

You have to convince the "warm fuzzies" that you care about them. A good way to do this is to implement a new policy (or enforce an old one) that requires a strict end time for Fastpass. You sell this as good (warm fuzzy) for everybody. Deep down you are aware of the inherent problems with enforcing the new policy...especially for families. But a little complainng from the masses tempoarily is still a better option than switching to a fee based system overnight. You preach that your intent is to be fair for everybody...and even those who are not having great experiences can be understanding. You are essentially inviting minimal grief today in order to save a lot of grief in the future.

Once the new system is in place...guests complaints can again become your friend. Now when you switch to a fee based system...like you wanted to in the beginning... You point to guests complaints as the reason you had to make a change. You again sell this new change as a "warm fuzzy" meant to be fair for everybody.

Now you have the fee based system you really need to compete...you have cover with the "warm fuzzy" crowd because you can point to Fastpass shortcomings. You can convince a good percentage of the "warm fuzzy" crowd that you had nothing but their best interest at heart. Unlike these other chains that went pay to cut in 2001.

I'm not saying Disney is involved in anything this devious. But I'm not so certain they could not be. If they really want to go to a dollar based system...which financially and reputationaly they almost have to... They can switch overight... Or they can condition guests ahead of time...

AAAAAAhhhhh!! One small not-on-topic post brings you back to post again about the same thing? AAaaaahhhhh!

You remind me of me when I was not LK. lol

The fact that we have been over all this ground is why I failed to point out to Jeff that Disney is giving its patrons a choice between a long wait or a longer wait for its most popular rides. Then he'd point out that those who opt for a longer wait aren't waiting in line, I point out that everybody waits longer...well, you know how these things go... 8-)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

LostKause said:
Disney Fastpass is like free coke at Holiday World, in my opinion.

It's Pepsi, Travis. And it's not free, it's included with admission ;)

Won't you gentlemen have a Pepsi?

Aamilj said:
Disney is already doing pay to cut on cruises. Those who pay for the higher rate cabins get on/ off and Custom's privileges for the line at each port.

So it's exactly what I suggested in my last post - indirect pay for benefits.

And again, you're not saying anything or theorizing about any angle that we haven't touched 1000 times already. Not that I disagree, I think you generally get it. But unfortunately, we've been there, done that.

RideMan said:
...I point out that everybody waits longer...well, you know how these things go...

Though you know that the capacity of the rides don't change and that's impossible, particularly when you can "wait" in more than one line simultaneously.

Disney is giving its patrons a choice between a long wait or a longer wait for its most popular rides.

Say that 10 times...knowing that your main competitor is offering a "ride immediately" choice. Which park is offering the superior guest experience?

This cannot continue to happen. It took Fastpass 12-13 years before too many people "found out" (by Disney's actions) that the return time did not matter. Do you think it will take 12-13 years for the typical Disney guest to "find out" Universal has the superior experience? Especially in this era of smart phones, Twitter, etc?

Which is back to my point. A time based system like Fastpass is on its last leg. Disney either already knows this and is planning the demise, or they are foolishly holding on to a dream.

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and choose to believe it is the former. At a time when the entire travel industry is implementing tiers in their policies designed to offer time saving...particularly PAY AND DO IT NOW...options... Disney goes and makes/enforces a policy that limits those options.

They will not "warm fuzzy" themselves to second tier status.