Failed Prototypes

Saturday, January 11, 2003 8:29 AM

Do any other companies besides Arrow Dynamics have failed prototypes? Here's a list of the failed prototypes from Arrow that I know of:

- Pipeline - Flying Turns - Original suspended with inversions - Original suspended ( The Bat )

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 8:47 AM

The closest I can think of now is the Vekoma Hammerhead stall which has been slated to open in 2000, then 2001, 2002, and now 2003.

Certainly some prototypes have met with limited success, but are still operating from time to time.

Oh, add Arrow's Virginia Reel. I heard it was lame to ride compared to a real Virginia Reel...instead of building a real verginia reel, they just stuck and rotating car on a mine train.

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 8:54 AM
But the Virginia Reel has yet to be built, and it is still on Arrow's product line ( At least it is advertised on there web site )

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:00 AM
It's been in their product line FOREVER! No one has built one for a reason ;) This is not a "new" prototype like the Arrowbatic.

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:07 AM
What would that reason be? It looks like a great family ride, and from the specs provided by the site, it's got a great capacity. I didn't realize that the Virginia Reel was such an "old" ride for Arrow.

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:10 AM
Where there plans to do Iron Wolf/Ninja type of suspended coasters with inversions.. how cool!
Did they ever build one?

*** This post was edited by superman on 1/11/2003. ***

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:11 AM

I can't speak first hand, but I heard some lame reactions to the prototype....jerky mine train track and nausea-inducing spinning. The Spinning Wild Mice from other companies we have now do much more and, in truth, closer to an "original Virginia Reel" experience. Same goes for those Maurer-Sohne Mice that spin very differently than the Reverchron. The one I experienced was at Korakuen and it made me think of an old Virginia Reel, but MUCH more controlled.

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:16 AM

superman said:
Where there plans to do Iron Wolf/Ninja type of suspended coasters with inversions.. how cool!
Did they ever build one?


Iron Wolf is a stand-up, so I'm not sure what you are talking about, but their original suspended concept included a corkscrew. They even built a scale model with one, but it was abandoned before the full scale, single car prototype was built. It was determined that it could not be done 100% safely. If because of a wind, low weight, or mechanical problems the element was taken slowly, the force would not keep the cars out, and they fall, causing a catastrophy for both the trains, track, and possibly the riders. The only way to safely do it is with rigid arm.

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:17 AM

Let's get it out of the way before anybody else says it....X, :) (u know someone had 2). but seriousely, i don't think X is a failure. i wasn't aware Arrow actually built an inverting Suspended coaster, can anybody confirm this?

I personally think that Arrow should build some Better Scale Prototypes BEFORE they put a coaster into production. I like Arrow(thouhg i haven't had a go at X yet :(), and hope that S & S will help them out in planning new rides...

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:18 AM

superman said:
Where there plans to do Iron Wolf/Ninja type of suspended coasters with inversions.. how cool!
Did they ever build one?

*** This post was edited by superman on 1/11/2003. ***



I think you mean Big Bad Wolf?

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:21 AM
There still exists a Virginia Reel, however.

Arrow seems to be leading in failed prototypes, but then, they have also debuted the most new products.

1. Polyurethane wheels
2. Matterhorn
3. Mine Train -- steel coaster w/ trains
4. Corkscrew -- first properly trailered trains since Prior and Church and the first improvement upon trailering.
5. Hyper
6. Steeplechase
7. Suspended

You could say intamin has had it's share of failures. The Space Diver [Flashback] didn't exactly take off. The 1st gen freefalls kinda disappeared, too, although they could probably be claimed as successes.

Togo's Ultratwister

Schwarzkopf's Alpenflug
Vekoma Hammerhead Stall

The Cannonball Coaster -- the jump technically worked, but never well.

The first 4 or 5 looping coasters.

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:22 AM

Peabody said:

I can't speak first hand, but I heard some lame reactions to the prototype....jerky mine train track and nausea-inducing spinning. The Spinning Wild Mice from other companies we have now do much more and, in truth, closer to an "original Virginia Reel" experience. Same goes for those Maurer-Sohne Mice that spin very differently than the Reverchron. The one I experienced was at Korakuen and it made me think of an old Virginia Reel, but MUCH more controlled.

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson



That's too bad. It seems like it would be a great family ride for a park like Paramount's Kings Island, or even small parks just getting started. It seems like Arrow has all these great concepts and ideas, its just that people don't want to give them a chance, or the ride itself doesn't live up to expectations.

Anyway, back to the original question. Are there any other failed prototypes from Arrow or other companies? I forgot about the Schwarzkopf suspended, until just recently, but I don't know if we could call that "failed" since the reason it wasn't built was because of severe money problems.

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Intelligence is a God given gift: Know how to use it.

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:31 AM

TeknoScorpion said:

Let's get it out of the way before anybody else says it....X, (u know someone had 2). but seriousely, i don't think X is a failure. i wasn't aware Arrow actually built an inverting Suspended coaster, can anybody confirm this?

I personally think that Arrow should build some Better Scale Prototypes BEFORE they put a coaster into production. I like Arrow(thouhg i haven't had a go at X yet ), and hope that S & S will help them out in planning new rides...

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Sdrawkcab siht daer ot emit eht koot yllautca uoy?



If you go to the thread entitled, "Any new 4D's sold yet?" you can find a link that I posted to a video that shows Arrows scale model suspended coaster with a corkscrew. It also shows a POV and perspective view of the first full-scale model suspended testing.

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Intelligence is a God given gift: Know how to use it.

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:34 AM

Stitch said:

superman said:
Where there plans to do Iron Wolf/Ninja type of suspended coasters with inversions.. how cool!
Did they ever build one?

*** This post was edited by superman on 1/11/2003. ***


I think you mean Big Bad Wolf?

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As far as I know, Big Bad Wolf was never suposed to have inversions. It was actually designed by Schwarzkopf first, but due to money problems, the plans were handed over to Arrow since they were already capable of building suspended coasters. Some of the footers had actually been poured by Schwarzkopf! And just in case anyone though of bringing this up, this was NOT the case with Drachen Fire.

NOTE: Sorry about the multiple posts, but for some reason my computer will only let me quote one person in each post.

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Intelligence is a God given gift: Know how to use it.

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:39 AM
Actually, you're quoting WAY too much man....trim it down! :)

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:41 AM
...And these forums don't let you quote more than one person in each post.

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:11 AM
Sorry about that. I thought it was just my computer.

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Intelligence is a God given gift: Know how to use it.

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:26 AM
Remember: most of the prototypes you listed were designed in the late 1970's and mid 1980's. Much of the computer technology hadent been established yet. The Corkscrew concept begun in 1967 and we have gone a long way from that.

Arrow ARE the forefathers of the modern steel coaster. They went through lots of testing to find concepts that work. They have been more creative that anyone else out there.... Arrow made their designs work and others improved those designs.

So we may look at these as failed prototypes, but I look at them as Successful Failures. Good job Arrow!

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:53 AM

The corkscrew concept opened up with Corkscrew at Knott's in 1975...how did you get 1967 john peck?

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Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:56 AM
He is right, the concept was worked on since 1967.....have you ever read the book about early Arrow?

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

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