Emperor dive roller coaster opening at SeaWorld San Diego

Totally get that Disney is very lax with their loose articles policy. I've just never seen someone with a full on drink on a Disney ride. That could be one reason they are so great with moving people through rides.

Another favorite of mine was when I saw a guy on Thunder Mountain film the whole ride with his iPad. Somewhere a Cedar Fair ride op had a twitchy eye during that one.

I've been on Rock-n-Rollercoaster with my full camera bag, that is to say with three lenses and a flash inside.

BrettV said:

This is (apparently) ride signage for Pantheon at BGW.

That's in the best tradition of "People can buy Pepsi-Cola, but they can't pee in the street."

Mulfinator said:

Totally get that Disney is very lax with their loose articles policy.

I'm not sure if its this or other parks are overly tight with their policies. I kinda think its the latter, especially when you factor in how restraints are checked at Disney too. This is exactly why they are the most efficient with dispatch times.

bigboy said:

Cheap and unfinished in California for 60 plus years:

CaUsE DiSnEy caN Do NO wRoNg!

I don't think he said that, he just has a different opinion than you.

Yeah, I really wasn't making a statement on Disney, just countering that Sea World's choice to not cover the station of a coaster in one of the most temperate climates in the country might not have anything to do with the company's tendency toward cheapness. I was able to find the Matterhorn pic a little more quickly.

To be fair. Disneyland’s rides are all beautifully designed. It’s a Small World in particular is stunning.

I was simply supporting his example with my own dig at Disney, because it's fun and Disney people are freaks :)

There are multiple roofless station coasters in CA, yet nobody really claims they were being cheap or raising a big stink about it... Also see Flight Deck and Patriot at CGA, for example.

I think the roofless stations are charming, in a simple, can only find in CA type way. What works there would be horrid in say, Orlando or Texas.

Roofless stations in Orlando in mid-summer > Rip Ride Rockit

SteveWoA said:

I think the roofless stations are charming, in a simple, can only find in CA type way. What works there would be horrid in say, Orlando or Texas.

I spent a summer working on the open-air platform of a flat ride at SFOT nearly 30 years ago and I had the tan to prove it. The vast majority of flat rides aren't covered with a roof. What's the difference in that and a coaster station without a roof? (not directed at you)

99er said:

Mulfinator said:

Totally get that Disney is very lax with their loose articles policy.

I'm not sure if its this or other parks are overly tight with their policies. I kinda think its the latter, especially when you factor in how restraints are checked at Disney too. This is exactly why they are the most efficient with dispatch times.

Just like Magnum at CP, the older Disney roller coasters don't allow ride operators to stack many trains. In the case of Big Thunder Mountain, the ride simply e-stops if a train has to stop on the pre-station brakes because the stations are full. This motivates the cast members to be extra efficient and keep things moving in an uninterrupted fashion. With 5 trains running, Big Thunder Mountain has a real life capacity of 2000-2100 riders per hour. It used to be even more: I once rode the version in Paris with 3 adult riders in a row, further increasing capacity. Splash Mountain at WDW also allowed 3 riders per row with one rule: can you fit? Now with the lap bars, its more challenging and its mostly two riders per row.

Space Mountain at Disneyland is the complete opposite of Cedar Fair operations: no seatbelt or backup restraint. 12 trains run, each composed of two cars with 6 riders in each. The station moves multiple rockets at once, using pneumatic pushers that quickly get the trains moving. As soon as a train clears the mid point of its stopping position, the next rocket moves and so on. Its a fascinating ballet. In the station, like others have noted, its "bring all your things with you" and as soon as all 12 riders have sat down, the rocket is moved to the next position. It passes the ADA transfer table and stops at the restraint check. Another cast member visually verify the bars and ask riders to push them up. He then pushes the dispatch enable and the rocket will start moving as soon as the ride computers reach its interval: 19 to 21 seconds dispatch interval on average.

Now the ride has such a tight timing on ride with the block brakes and lifts, they can't have faster rockets. How do they verify that? When the train is watching to launch at the restraint check, the track section is weighted and checked against a maximum weight. If the train is too heavy, the sliding track switch moves and sends the rocket to the left into the train hangar. A cast member comes in, apologises and help everyone off. Back at the station, the riders are split among smaller guests to come in under the rocket maximum weight limit.

The ADA platform is unique among coasters, as it allows the ride to run with less e-stops due to back-ups in the station. A rocket is parked in the platform, which is right after the loading position. Guests requiring extra time can take all the time they need to sit and settle in. Once its time, the loading position will send an empty rocket. That one stops next to the loaded ADA rocket and it only takes a few seconds for it to slide over to be inserted into the system. The empty rocket will sit there and the ride operate with the slid over transfer track instead, When it returns, they do the switch and send the empty rocket to the train hangar. Another rocket is pulled out from storage and inserted into the line before the station.

Just like Matterhorn Bobsleds, cars can actually touch each others during normal operation in the station area and they have noses and bumpers built for that.

I have always been amazed at how well Space Mountain (CA) operates. The fact that they break down so many of the stages of one "typical load stage" (unload, load, restraint check) into individual stages means that those things are moving through there rapidly. Along with the incorporation of the ADA track and hanger spur and the lack of need for item check, it's impressive capacity for a ride running 12 person trains.

I think a big thing that helps for WDW Space Mountain is that you sit down at load but then advance to the next block to have your restraint checked. And the lapbar can still be up, as long as you are seated, the train can be advanced the 10-20 feet to the next block.

Again, something a Cedar Fair ride supervisor gets cold sweats over at night.

I would love to see the data from CF's consultants that validate their methodology. Watching Disney, who has a pretty great safety record, I suspect they're overthinking everything.

Jeff said:

I would love to see the data from CF's consultants that validate their methodology. Watching Disney, who has a pretty great safety record, I suspect they're overthinking everything.

The biggest indictment against CF safety approach is Woodstock Express at Cedar Point. In what world does a Vekoma roller skater, that many operators run without seatbelts or at the maximum, a very loose seatbelt per row, require.... shorter individual seatbelts than Millennium Force? The official reason I was told was to prevent adults from riding, but then, why not put a rule in place where adults can ride with a kid and put a single seatbelt per row.

Disney puts a much stronger focus on training: they don't want lemmings more worried about messing up a useless procedure than actually paying attention to what is happening around them. IROC is an awful ride operator training program where operators are considered like dumb idiots who need to be told with repetition "safety steps" versus actually understanding what they are doing. Cedar Fair, Silverwood and a few other parks are big clients of International Ride Training and its at their clients where I've seen and experienced the worst safety violations. In 2010 at Kings Dominion, I was dispatched with an unchecked and very loose lap bar on Flight of Fear. The operators went through the whole "check when touching a bar", visual scan..... and never approached the front car. Luckily, it was during an enthusiast event, so everyone could push their bar down, but it was scary. Six Flags used to be clients of theirs, but they stopped using their services and I've seen improvements there.

IROC is the reason why you have "visual scans", the old "check" word that operators were told to say when checking a restraint and the biggest one: an operator cannot move while a train is in motion in the station. This caused an issue at Silverwood as Stunt Pilot was to use a moving train in the station with the ride programmed as such. On media day, International Ride Training said no to that and the park had to park the train, have people take their seats, then operators could check restraints. Silverwood finally realized how bad it was and went after to the moving train in the station.

Disney ride operator training is counted in days. A ride like Space Mountain is 4-5 days with a trainer. Later, once the cast member knows his ride, he will have 2-3 extra days of training to go in the control tower, where he manages the whole operation.

I know when I was trained on Dinosaur and Primeval Whirl, there was a constant emphasis on maintaining eye contact with the vehicle(s) you were actively in charge of dispatching. And on Primeval Whirl you also had a little handheld ridestop that looked like a garage door opener so you could be engaged with a dispatch without having to be tied down to a control panel, allowing for continuous loading.

I just want to point out that Tidal Twister, a coaster at the same park also has an uncovered station. Carry on about Disney now.

Absimilliard said:
The biggest indictment against CF safety approach is Woodstock Express at Cedar Point. In what world does a Vekoma roller skater, that many operators run without seatbelts or at the maximum, a very loose seatbelt per row, require.... shorter individual seatbelts than Millennium Force? The official reason I was told was to prevent adults from riding, but then, why not put a rule in place where adults can ride with a kid and put a single seatbelt per row.

What I love most about that example is that Magic Kingdom runs theirs, which is shorter, with two trains, often without even stacking them. With children loading. It's remarkable to see.