Disney maintenance crashed our car at Epcot

It just depends on the design. I am 6'1" and drive a VW GTI. It feels like it has more room than a lot of SUVs I've rented.

I’ve sat in plenty of sedans some recently (I’ll occasionally rent one if the price for a minivan or suv is too high) and it’s still true.

We have had 3 minivans over 30 years. And a car as well. We often have more than 5 people in the van (though we don't have that many in immediate family). Carpooling with kids friends when they were younger. Bringing grandparents with us sometimes as well (initially for more time to visit and as grandparents got older to minimize how often they drove). And now that they each have significant others, more than 5 passengers happens often with 5+ adults. And we still take long driving vacations.

I agree that many people carry too much stuff with them on a daily basis. But it doesn't mean there aren't a number of times you need to move stuff. Particularly if you have kids and/or a house. To me, I like the flexibility with a van. With 3 rows of seats up you can seat 7 (or 8) and bring a decent amount of stuff with you. Fold the back row seats (one, two or all three) and you have a lot more room (and still can seat 7 or 8 at your destination). Remove the 2 row seats, fold the back seats and you have a ton of room. And can still seat 5 when you get to your destination. Some vans (maybe SUVs I think--haven't been in van market for over decade and never been in SUV market) can stow 2nd row seats so you bring them with you as well. We have used all of those combinations a number of times.

Different people live differently. Have different goals, views, opinions, etc. Different likes/dislikes. What works for one may not work for all. Nothing profound in any of that. Though often gets lost when different people talk.

Traveling has changed my view on what's necessary versus what is merely convenient. People (sensible people) in NYC tend to not have cars, because you can get anywhere on public transport. In Copenhagen, about half the people commute to work and school on a bike (and their subway system is amazing). And I get it, the US can't reverse urban sprawl or conjure better public transportation, but we only seem willing to double down on single-passenger driving instead of something that seems more convenient if you're used to it.

We’ve got a decent-sized stroller that we take with us, and anytime we’ve gone on vacation, that storage space has been clutch. We pack pretty conservatively because it’s just a pain in the neck, but all it takes is a couple of suitcases paired with that stroller and the SUV’s space becomes essential. Again, not something I want to have forever, but with two small children, it’s been useful.

We can’t reverse sprawl but we could stop it. But with our city/county/state/country government structure it’s never going to happen. Every municipality is more than happy to take the growth and new tax revenue.

If you give people fewer choices, you can reduce the chances they make choices you don't like. And if you can limit those choices to only those that you like, you should be golden.

Our Chevy Equinox has been my favorite vehicle ever. Two kids, and we take a lot of road-trips. We are also youth coaches (which means we are consistently moving a lot of equipment form point A to point B) and a lot of the travelling we do is to our daughter's running adventures, or one of the Meyer family vacations.

We actually have a roof-top cargo carrier that has become essential for us on longer road trips.

We don't take a lot of stuff with us into places, but we do take a lot of stuff with us to places, as we almost always VRBO or rent a cabin at our destinations.

We have a smaller car (Chevy Cobalt), but that's mainly for work commute not to mention new 16-year-old driving adventures.

The space does come in handy on long road trips, going out west for 3 weeks with my parents, between the suitcases, cooler, and snack bin the back fills up really fast.

TheMillenniumRider:

...certainly forced market manipulation at play.

I just don't see it that way. They are selling what's popular, and SUVs have become increasingly popular over the years, at the expense of sedans. They could, in theory, just as easily increase margins on sedans if that's what people were buying. But people aren't buying them very often.

Shades:
Having owned three mini-vans since 1998, and having driven numerous SUVs throughout the years, namely for vacations and work, I would put a mini-van up against any SUV from a practicality stand-point.

The minivan is, for my money at least, the most well-rounded vehicle ever. It can comfortably fit 7 people, has enough capacity to carry a huge amount of stuff, including appliances, is reasonably economical, and isn't as cumbersome to park as a truck or large SUV.

When manufacturers are willing to give thousands off in incentives to buy an SUV, but not for a sedan, that is manipulation of the buyer. Even if the SUV costs more, people see those thousands off and go with it because "I am saving more". Same mindset of the buy more save more, 20% off whatever nonsense promos you see.

Additionally, marketing makes you believe you need to have this vehicle for off road, that realistically you are never going to do. (Driving to a state park on a dirt road isn't going off road either.) Or maybe you need to carry the whole house that one time, but you really don't, you were conditioned to take every possible thing with you just in case, because that makes you buy more stuff and stuff to carry the stuff and what have you.

I was watching a cooking show the other night, that was talking about grills, and when buying a grill buy one that is big enough for the once a year cookout, that you may or may not even do. The smaller grill will work fine (even for the cookout, cook in batches), but don't buy it because of the once a year one off use case. Marketing at work yet again, bigger grill, more profits. $$$ That's exactly the same thing going on with the suv/pickup crowd. I need to have this huge car for that once a year vacation, or the refrigerator I might haul once in 5 years. Do you really think that is true? Or are you just thinking about the 1% because you were conditioned to do so?

I don't know, it isn't like you can't rent a bigger vehicle or anything, and yeah, it costs more, I get it, but how much have you saved all year on fuel costs, or insurance costs, or tire costs, or anything else that costs more to have a huge vehicle?

This country has a size problem and a stuff problem. However, stuff is a burden. It is the whole reason lean manufacturing was created and is adopted by many large corporations, the same corporations that convince you the buyer that you need more "stuff", while they are busy getting rid of "stuff" to save them time and money. Try living minimalist sometimes, go somewhere with less stuff, it is really freeing and liberating, instead of spending time packing stuff, hauling stuff, buying stuff to move stuff, remembering stuff, repacking stuff, etc etc, just go and enjoy whatever you are doing without all the stuff.

You do you, I'm not here to tell you that you are wrong, but you can't deny that the majority of this country and the things we have and the beliefs we hold are a product of effective marketing and manipulation of the buyers.

I remember the onset of SUV availability, and finding it completely absurd. On the rare ocassion that I would see one, I'd think, "Yeah, you really need that 4-wheel-drive to get groceries." They were status vehicles almost exclusively, and if that's not a marketing phenomenon, I don't know what is. People are like, "I can drive in the snow!" and "I have room for the family accoutrement," as if prior to the SUV no one drove around with their families in the snow. But people did, obviously.

I agree about stuff. I've tried to reduce stuff, and I'm already thinking about what it will be like to down-size when my kid is out in the world. Time (and a lot of moving) has made me realize how much of a burden stuff is. So little of it is important. And cars, we've had three of them totaled by other drivers in the last dozen years, two of them in just the last three. I can't think of a worse thing to sink money into.

Culturally, America has a consumption problem, for sure. That's not even an opinion, you can measure per capita consumption of virtually any resource and the US will be at or near the top. We're not efficient.

The demonization of the SUV is a bit much. It's a broad category. I will also argue that a hatchback is a better use of space than a trunk.

A trunk is usually deeper, but lacks height. The hatchback is shallower, but taller. Just depends on what is going in it.

The part that gets me the most is that many of the SUVs on the road are just more bloated hatchbacks, in some cases the SUV and the hatchback are exactly the same inside with near identical volume sizes, expect the SUV is just externally more bloated and higher off the ground, which don’t make sense from a vehicle performance perspective. Why would anyone buy a small suv instead of a hatchback?

At least in the hatchback if I want to take an offramp at 60, or maybe go drifting those are possibilities. The SUV will just end up in the ditch if I try that.

TheMillenniumRider:

At least in the hatchback if I want to take an offramp at 60, or maybe go drifting those are possibilities. The SUV will just end up in the ditch if I try that.

You understand that most soccer moms don't go drifting don't you? Also, I just want to point out that owning a daily driver that is capable of drifting is not really any less wasteful than driving a Chevy Tahoe.

I suppose, you can drift a Miata really well, and that thing is decently economic as well, but not great for carrying the kiddos.

also, the cool soccer moms drift on the way home.

Man, if that thing hit even bump on the road, it's gonna roll!

This discussion has gone off the rails 😂

Gonch swoops in with perfect content as usual, however I will point out that Tahoe is not a consumer version. It is the police variant, now whether or not that makes a difference I am unsure.

As a valet parking attendant in the mid 90's during the "Rise Of The SUV's" I saw it all first hand. Parking at country clubs and fancy restaurants I drove all of the Explorers and Discoveries with the biggest brush guards you've ever seen in the Suburbs of St Louis.

I remember saying "This stupid status symbol fad will pass." Oops.

To this day I remain adamantly anti SUV/Crossover. (Yes, my wife drives one, but of course she does, she's convinced that as a birder, she's required to drive a Subaru.) But typing out all of my opinions here would bore you all to death and waste all of Jeffs bandwidth, and I have to get ready for work.