Different Coaster Manufacturers

I refer to all of Schmeck's and Allen's designs as coasters built by PTC, but designed by the individuals. Millers are tougher, because didn't Miller build coasters after he left PTC? I think that only the earlier Miller rides, like Clementon's Jack Rabbit and the original Giant Coaster (Wild One) were actual Miller/PTC rides.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

Oh... I see. I have no idea there. I am half tempted to say that it is more Schmeck than Miller. The only Miller's I have ridden are Kennywood's Jackrabbit and Racer. The current configuration of Wild One reminds me more of Schmeck's Thunderhawk (Dorney), Yankee Cannonball (Canobie Lake) and even Comet (Great Escape) than it does of the two Miller's at Kennywood. Then again, that is only comparing two Miller designs to a few Schmeck designs. Could be totally off base.

Also, wasn't some reprofiling done to Wild One since its arrival at SFA (or Wild World... or Adventure World... or what ever it was called when it was moved?) I heard that the turn around was reprofiled (toned down), and that the first drop was reprofiled somehow.

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Half of the people surveyed agree, half disagree and another half are unsure.

I believe that Charlie Dinn (or Curtis Summers) designed a new helix for the ride that replaced one that was lost in a fire in the '60s. I don't think it was an exact replacement, I heard that the original was much better. A few years ago, the turnaround was flattened out somewhat to eliminate a cool-looking swooping drop that was supposedly really wild. I don't know if a well-known designer did that or if the changes were drafted in-house.

That's my problem with the Wild One... while Miller designed the original, all of the elements of the ride seem to reflect the characteristics of a Schmeck ride like the Yankee Cannonball or Thunderhawk. Its kinda like the dilemna with the Phantoms Revenge at Kennywood- even though Arrow designed the original ride, it is really more of a Morgan now, and most people refer to it as one. Therefore, isn't the Wild One really a Schmeck coaster?

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002
*** This post was edited by Rob Ascough 9/11/2003 5:07:22 PM ***

John Miller designed AND built coasters. While it is true that some of his rides were built by PTC, he was not on their payroll per sey. The Vettel family built and designed coasters, some under the auspices of T.M. Harton, the rest on their own. Prior and Church designed and built coasters, or like Miller would just sell you the plans.

Didn't Miller partner with Harry Baker in the late 20s or early 30s?

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

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OK this is a toughy. Well we can simply thigns by putting Schmecks, Allens, and Millers all as PTC, then we have Summers and Dinn, RCCA, Six Flags, Intamin, B&M, Arrow, Vekoma, Zierer, Chance, Zamperla, CCI, GCII, Schwarzkopf, Hopkins, Morgan, Cobb, Togo, Premier, SetPoint, Miler, Fetterman, SDC, Pinfari, Overland, Mack, Reverchon, S&S, and Mauer Sohne. I think thats it.at 29 makers whew! And to cloudy thigns up even mor, I thinkg Werner Stengal has designed for at least half of those companies. Most of the Beemers, Most of the Intamin's, a good portion of the Schwarzkops, and even a woodie or two on that list have been designed by him.

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you forgot nauta bussink

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I am one.
I am Turbo.
Top Thrill in the front row... anything else is lame

The firm of Miller and Baker was well known in the trade during their short, but prolific partnership during the 1920's.

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Turbo said:

I thinkg Werner Stengal has designed for at least half of those companies. Most of the Beemers, Most of the Intamin's, a good portion of the Schwarzkops, and even a woodie or two on that list have been designed by him.

The thing with Stengel and Schwarzkopf is quite easy: Stengel designed them ALL! (from Wildcat onwards).

I think he (or his office) did as well every Intamin in existance. This applies as well for SPACEDIVER/SHOCKWAVE which was an idea of Intamin ("Ve vant to build a coastar zat dives down to ze lower level on ze smallest radius possible.") but it was designed by Harald Wanner, an employee of the Stengel office. Trackwork was done by Giovanola, as they came up with the boxbeam track design.

Where Walter and Claude fit into that picture remains an item of "net knowledge" or small urban myths.

Woodies designed by Stengel are SOB, Colossos, Wild Wild West (germany and spain), Pegasus and Balder.

I don´t have exact numbers, but apart from Arrow, Vekoma, Miller, S&S and a few others, he did almost everything else (including Premier, Zierer, Maurer, Gerstauer, Zamperla) and numerous flatrides.

BTW: I have recently seen a pic of the ACE plaque (here on CB) on SFMMs Revolution and was surprised that they credited the ride to Intamin and not to Schwarzkopf and Stengel.

You still credit a CD to the artist and not to the store where you bought it from.

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Dolly Surround

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I wonder why Stengel has never really been credited with all his creations until now, and I wonder if he is just SLIGHTLY P.O.'d that some of his greatest creations are said to be the work of others?

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

It seems to me Walter and Claude were the idea guys. The four wide seating, inverted design, etc, were all their idea. However it is Stengal's incredible designs that really brought B&M to the forefront.

A consistent experience also seems to be a pennant of Beemer, look at all the trims. Intamin seems to just let Stengal go wild.

Also take a look at SFoG's Mindbender and SFoT's Shockwave and you can really see the Intamin influence. Box track anyone?

Schwarzkopf is really the beggining of all the European coasters out there (sans Vekoma). Intamin just happened to market his coasters and then started on there own.

Gionovola, Intamin, B&M, Schwarzkopf, and maybe even others all can be traced back to the same roots.