Deja Vu - Two Down, One To Go?

Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:59 PM
For the life of me, I can't understand why some of the bigger parks aren't following Holidayworld's lead of 'included' soda and treating people like humans. Money I guess. And a big serving of general stupidity.
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Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:18 PM
Mamoosh's avatar Neither can I, and I made a similiar comment about "perceived value" in a recent thread. Sodas, lockers, parking...I don't care if parks roll it into the cost of admission, so long as I don't feel nickel-and-dimed once I get thru the gates...or even before, lol.
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Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:25 PM
heck yeah! Would be better to pay $75 than have to dish out for everything you wanted. To have both side of American Eagle running, to have to wait in line like everyone else, be able to get a drink for yourself. So much would be better that way... I'm still waiting. Holidayworld has set the mark (kinda like they used to say the Cyclone set the standard)... I can still see it happening.
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Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:17 PM
I found this on another website and thought it was interesting:

http://nuttyguy.com/2007/11/27/silverwood-gets-new-coaster-2008/

Doubt this will happen though.


There are two types of people in the world. People who like coasters and idiots.
www.freewebs.com/alexibrahim (new forums have been added)

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Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:47 PM
Mamoosh's avatar Screamscape posted the same rumor. I hope its not true!
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Friday, November 30, 2007 12:48 AM

Kevin Max said:
Which leads me to leave you all with a question: Is there anything a park could do to alienate loyal patrons more than removing (arguably) its best ride, especially when that ride operated regularly last year? For me, this removal is a huge disappointment. I know I am only one person, but I will not be visiting this park (Great America) for awhile. I'm surprised more people aren't angry, or at least questioning the decision. We shall see how people react next summer.

I think you answered your own question here.

The park could do much more to "alienate loyal patrons", especially if as you pointed out, "more people aren't angry, or at least questioning the decision."

If the "loyal fanbase" that the park pissed off was 10 coaster enthusiasts or even 100 coaster enthusiasts, it isn't like that is going to hurt them.

I can't believe that so many people here buy into this weird "Deja Vu had a mystery about it" thing. Since for the last four years, my visits to the park have been about once a year (living about 300 miles away now doesn't help!), it doesn't seem like there is a mystery about it. From what I have heard:

- People in other lines are pissed that it isn't operating, or that its line is so long and doesn't move so they won't get to ride it.
- People in line for it are pissed at the park for not "being able to maintain it" and keep it operating.
- People in line for it are pissed that it takes so long for the line to move.

Rob pointed out what I think is a HUGE point to consider -- there were four of these constructed at once, and NONE since then. How many Boomerang and SLC installations have there been? Seems like when Vekoma gets something semi-right that parks flock to it because it is cheap.

An almost 200 foot tall ride that gets a capacity estimated to be at between 400-600 people (and when I was in the lines, they sent approximately one train every five minutes, for a total of 384 an hour) in a park that routinely draws huge crowds is stupid. And, a 200 foot tall ride in a smaller park that can't keep itself operating is stupid.

Deja Vu is the *exact* model of a ride that no park needs. Put it in a place like Silverwood if the rumors are true, and it becomes a signature ride for the park and a ride that *instantly* park guests will be completely pissed if it isn't open, as it is twice as tall as anything else in the park.

Put it in a place like Great America, and although people have a lot of other stuff to go on so if it is closed it isn't as big of a deal, but not that many people a day can get on it - if we use my 384 count and the park is open for 12 hours, that is 4608 a day. And, if we guess that a park like Great America is open 150 days a year, that means that about 691000 people could ride it a year if there is no downtime.

I have no clue how many people a year attend Great America now, but I remember in the 90's that Time Warner said that over 3 million people visited. Let's estimate the attendance at a lower 2,500,000 for this sake, and of the amount of guests at Great America, about 27% could ride Deja Vu a year.

Now, if we say that there are days that the park is open for less hours (let's say 10% less is an average) and you add to that the expectation by the "mystery" that Deja Vu will spent at least part of the day not working (let's say 5% this time), Deja Vu is at best servicing less than 25% of the park's guests.

Add to this that Deja Vu supposedly had a very high cost of maintenance compared to other rides at the park.

Now explain to me, using these numbers, why Six Flags shouldn't rip out Deja Vu? And "less than 25% of the guests would have wanted to ride it because it was so scary" isn't a good reason that the ride should stay, as then it is clearly in a park where most of the patrons don't care about it.

On the other topic, why did it have so much trouble -- as someone else pointed out, the catch wagon had to catch it at the exact right spot or it would mispark the train or miscatch the train. Being off by an inch or two (which means if the train is traveling a different speed due to the weight on it) would have meant a downtime. The Deja Vu system was *extremely* complex on a ride that needed it to be extremely simple.

Had Vekoma put on restraints that didn't need seat belts like the B&M flyers, that would have helped matters immensely. But since the ride wasn't designed like that, it meant horribly long loading procedure followed by an exacting system. It's a wonder to me that the ride didn't break down more often than it did.

Anyway, this is my last post on this topic, as I feel like it is beating the dead horse into glue. The reasons to rip out Deja Vu are extremely clear to those (many) of us that have no first hand knowledge of the rides costs or issues, so I'm sure that those who think that it is even better. The only reason that I think that anyone could be truly angry about it leaving are those who really enjoyed the ride, and I understand those feelings, but I think that even if you fall into that category, you can take a step back and realize that Six Flags has to worry more about the guests that weren't able to ride Deja Vu getting a better overall experience, and spending the money which was thrown at Vu on other things I think is a sensible way to do that.

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Friday, November 30, 2007 2:14 AM
Mamoosh's avatar The only place appropriate for any Vekoma GIB is the scrap yard.
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Friday, November 30, 2007 9:21 AM
They deserve the same fate as Morgan wood coaster trains, although I think I banished them the bottom of Long Island Sound a few years back after rediscovering my hatred of them on Rye's Dragon.

Six Flags seems to be full of it when it comes to a lot of things. The Revolution story reminded me of someone who once asked a Great Adventure rep at Eastcoaster why Rolling Thunder's track was never greased and they replied that the coaster would be too fast if they did that.

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Friday, November 30, 2007 10:11 AM
^^So, that was smart of Six Flags and Shapiro to get how many 400 per hour rides since that time? He's getting how many Tony Hawks, and adding how many Mack Mouse coasters that are exactly around the same capacity which isn't high?
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Friday, November 30, 2007 10:46 AM
It depends on what the ride was supposed to do in terms of capacity. If the ride was going to take 800 RPH but only takes 400 RPH, that's a problem.
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Friday, November 30, 2007 10:50 AM
rollergator's avatar ^^The more believable rumor I've heard regarding RT's *exceeedingly dry and screechy* condition is that there were environmental issues that prevented greasing the tracks. I can't verify or disprove that claim, but the *marshy* property that I would have considered to be "sensitive" is closer to Nitro, but....

There's NO way a GIB can pull capacity like Hershey's mouse...no idea if we'll see the "roll-through" kind of station set-up or not, but that helps capacity considerably. I remember seeing a sign with the "capacity goal" for GAm's, and while it was REALLY low (mighta been 432, maybe lower?), the board op laughed with us and indicated that the "target figure" was out of line with the reality. The Hershey theoretical max, per rcdb, is 1120/hour. Certainly not a realistic figure either, but I wouldn't be surprised *at all* to find out they can do twice what a GIB can...


You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)

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Friday, November 30, 2007 10:55 AM
There could be some truth in that but I think it's just the park really not giving a rat's ass about the ride. Besides, if that were the case, I think that painting the thing would be off-limits as well. But whatever, as that's pretty much a moot point just as it's been these past 15-20 years!
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Friday, November 30, 2007 10:55 AM

Spinout said:
^^So, that was smart of Six Flags and Shapiro to get how many 400 per hour rides since that time? He's getting how many Tony Hawks, and adding how many Mack Mouse coasters that are exactly around the same capacity which isn't high?

I don't think capacity was the cause of DV removals, it was reliability and operating costs. The loss of other attractions in the parks is what will hurt guests next season because the overall capacity at the parks are lower. SFGam, SFGad, SFmm, SFne are all losing multiple rides and shows.

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Friday, November 30, 2007 2:08 PM
Hey, thecoasterguy!

It's just a roller coaster.(gasp!)

I never gave an opinion one way or another on if it should stay or go. In fact I think it should go since it had so many problems. And the money saved should go to something more feasible for both the company and it's guests. But it better be good. I just said it was a great ride when it worked like it was intended.

Other than bitching about capacity, why don't you tell me why the que filled up when it was working? Is that a mystery to you?

Oh, you're not speaking to this topic anymore.


Thanks for another great season, VF!

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Friday, November 30, 2007 2:20 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar If the "mystery" was helping the ride, why doesn't the park close down Raging Bull every now and then to give it some mystery?

Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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Friday, November 30, 2007 2:38 PM

WildThingNative said:
Hey, thecoasterguy!

It's just a roller coaster.(gasp!)

I never gave an opinion one way or another on if it should stay or go. In fact I think it should go since it had so many problems. And the money saved should go to something more feasible for both the company and it's guests. But it better be good. I just said it was a great ride when it worked like it was intended.


I wasn't addressing you, was I?


Other than bitching about capacity, why don't you tell me why the que filled up when it was working? Is that a mystery to you?

Um, it's queue filled up because it couldn't handle much of anything in the way of capacity, and people wanted to go on it. But most of them couldn't.

Would it be more of a mystery to someone like you why Raging Bull's queue continues to be full, even though it can handle probably three times what Deja Vu could? And, it supposedly costs less to run?

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Friday, November 30, 2007 9:34 PM
Let's rip it out because people weren't able to ride it as much as they wanted to. It will make them happier now that they can never ride it.

People would not have been "pissed", to use your terminology, about it being closed and not getting to ride it unlessi t was a well-liked ride.

My point: Don't rip out great rides unless you have to. The definition of "have to" is the subject of our debate, I guess. I don't think they have to.

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