Decapitation at SFoG

Saturday, July 5, 2008 3:16 PM
matt.'s avatar

Soggy said:
How can you say that this kids OWN WORDS (the myspace page) do not define his attitde and actions and that they are contrary to "Christian values?" I'm speechless.

Because

a.) Myspace does not equal reality
b.) The notion that one can judge someone's Christian-ness via Myspace is laughable (and, as a side note, completely un-Christian, no?)
c.) His personal religious convictions are irrelevant to this conversation unless someone can connect the dots and show otherwise and
d.) His Myspace is completely typical and yet his actions are obviously not.

Judge not lest ye be judged? Anyone familiar with this one? Is that not considered a Christian value? *** Edited 7/5/2008 7:19:09 PM UTC by matt.***

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 5:25 PM
Since when does anyone have to be "christian" to go on a trip with a church group. I think the only restriction would be you can't be a satanist. He was most likely there with a group from the church his family attends. He probably went with his family to that church. None of that means he was overly religious. As I said earlier about his My Space page, he practically brags about being an asshole. Jumping a pair of fences says asshole who thought he didn't have to walk to the front gate like the rest of us. If he tried to grab riders feet then that says asshole who's is willing to do something dangerous and stupid to look cool in front of his friends.

I'm sorry his family and friends lost someone special to them.

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 5:36 PM
You can be a statanist and still go with a church group. It's called "witnessing to the unbelivers.

Coaster Junkie from NH
I drive in & out of Boston, so I ride coasters to relax!

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 5:46 PM
You can also be an arsehole... :P
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Saturday, July 5, 2008 9:24 PM
His religious standing isn't really relevant, but the myspace page shows a decided lack of respect for authority, with its promotion of female genitalia (rude), pot (illegal) and wealth. This lack of respect manifested itself in the kid's decision to trespass in a restricted area.

My only comment is that after seeing the myspace page, I'm not as surprised that this individual climbed the fences. It was a bad combination of the aforementioned lack of respect for any authority, combined with the typical teenage feelings that "bad things happen to other people, not to me" that did him in. Sad, but not totally unsurprising.

When I was 17, I did all kinds of stupid things, but never, ever considered doing what he did. Even when exploring woods near the back of KI as a kid, where trespassing would be much easier than at SFoG, we never considered it. A shame that such trespass seemed to be "no big deal" to this guy.

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 11:16 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar The reference on his page to P*ssy, money, weed is a song by Lil Wayne. He linked to it on his page. Are we really suggesting that his behavior was influenced by the music he listened to?

If you search the MySpace pages of other 17 year olds, I believe you will find many, many others just like his. Why? Because MySpace is a game to kids. It no more personifies their true character than a blurb in a year book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySpace

Pay close attention to the section entitled "Social and cultural." It speaks to the lack of reality that can exist in internet social groups.


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 12:25 AM
Check out this media article's title of this story from Britain.

I thought the American media was bad at sensationalizing stories.

Click here.


My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 12:29 AM
Carrie M.'s avatar Whoa! *shakes head*

That's one of my pet peeves indeed.


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 4:07 AM

matt. said:


a.) Myspace does not equal reality
.


Yeah but a myspace page is created by the user and is how they choose to represent themselves. It may not be reality but speaks volumes for the individual that created it, as it's intended.

Also the second fences in the ride are located in the second half after the loops. Both are towards the end of the ride where the foot chopper parts are. The fences are there for because it's the two points where the ride dips down enough to hurt someone standing below it. *** Edited 7/6/2008 6:51:25 PM UTC by Cropsey***

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 9:08 AM
matt.'s avatar So why does this Myspace page indicate an individual's propensity to climb two fences and jump into the restricted area of a roller coaster when the page is completely, 100% typical?

If the Myspace page explains it, and there is a correlation between the two shouldn't there be some sort of pattern? Shouldn't there be other people with similar Myspace pages doing the same thing if that's what explains his horrible decision?

In a related note, why do we poo-poo the British media for sensationalizing the story and yet so many people here are doing the same thing by engaging in baseless character assassination, as Carrie M. so smartly put it? For pete's sake, the kid died!

BTW, interesting link, Carrie -

"Among his other criticisms, one pertains to the distance afforded by the Internet that emboldens members, such as females who feature photos of themselves in scant clothing on their profile pages or behave in ways they would not in person, and he indicated that this duplicity undercuts the central design of MySpace, namely, to bring people together."

In addition I think it's pertinent to note that in hip-hop culture, posturing, bragging, braggadocio, fronting, and...acting are pretty much par for the course. Another factor playing into all of this is that many people judging this kid from his Myspace page can't even begin to understand what they are looking at. Lil Wayne has the fastest selling album in 3 years out but to many a quote from that record is going to instantly sound like some sort of marginal, non-mainstreamed anti-authoritarian statement from a kid who likes to break rules by default. I saw soccer moms in mini-vans clamoring to get into Best Buy to get the thing. *** Edited 7/6/2008 1:24:28 PM UTC by matt.***

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 11:03 AM
Soggy's avatar It's his propencity to break rules, get high and crap like that. If you can't connect those dots then you have a disorder of some kind. Wether the dude was a playa or a poser doesn't matter, he wants people to preceive him in a certian way. And his actions will in some way support his preceived image.

Could you assume that a Myspace page dedicated to street racing would be owned by a street racer, or is that a completely false assumption? If said person dies in a street racing accident is that a complete coincidence?


Pass da' sizzrup, bro!

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 11:44 AM
matt.'s avatar But you know nothing about his propensity to break rules (other then the set of decisions he made at hand) or get high. Even still, plenty of Coasterbuzzers break rules or get high but you don't see them jumping under roller coasters.

In addition, if you did assume everything on his Myspace page were completely representative of his character, what is the difference? Does it make his life worth any less or the situation any less painful for those involved? How does marginalizing the victim based on prejudicial assumptions from a Myspace page serve anyone, especially when his Myspace is, once again, completely typical? *** Edited 7/6/2008 3:47:01 PM UTC by matt.***

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 2:16 PM
Soggy's avatar Your ability to miss the point is unparalleled. I have already addressed the points you have just re-re-restated. Keep typing, It's at least good for a chuckle.

Pass da' sizzrup, bro!

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 2:41 PM
CoasterDiscern's avatar Listen guys, you need to stop defending yourselves with facts and throwing them at each other.

My take from the last two pages are as follows. You all have very, very, very good points, true facts, and a absolutely brilliant knowledge of the issues you are all discussing. Take a step back now and look at what the argument is about. Carrie, Matt, Gonch and Cat. You have used the source of your emotions to fuel the subject further, and your individual behavior has been effected by social situations. Your cognitive process has fallen off the tracks and is now very apparent. I would feel better you guys kissed and made up. ;) You two especially are very committed to finding the results on a horrific accident. Be men, take your punches, recognize on another and move on. You guys are to good for this.


Ask not what you can do for a coaster, but what a coaster can do for you.
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Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:15 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar

CoasterDiscern said:
Carrie, Matt, Gonch and Cat. You have used the source of your emotions to fuel the subject further, and your individual behavior has been effected by social situations. Your cognitive process has fallen off the tracks and is now very apparent.

What qualifies you to make this assessment, CoasterDiscern?

Incidentally, this would be the first point in this thread where I have sensed the need to defend myself. Up until now, no one has called me out by name to judge the way they perceive I think or even more inappropriately how they perceive I feel.

Since you have chosen to do so, I will at least ask you to address how you have come to your conclusions.


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:32 PM
CoasterDiscern's avatar Carrie, its not entirely you my comments are directed towards. You have different reasons for your "defense". The conclusion is the easy part. If you read closely from the last three pages, the words used from the entire party speaks volumes about your/their emotions, feelings and thought process. I'm not trying to belittle anyone or spotlight myself as being superior, though I think it was time for someone to step in and add some water to the fire.


*** Edited 7/6/2008 7:33:52 PM UTC by CoasterDiscern***


Ask not what you can do for a coaster, but what a coaster can do for you.
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Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:45 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar I realize I was one of four you picked out for your assessment. Though, I can only speak for and on behalf of myself.

You didn't answer my question... what qualifies you to draw conclusions about anyone's emotional and cognitive processes?

Your need to be a firefighter (whether or not a fire even existed) does not speak to your ability to be a psychiatrist.


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 4:11 PM
CoasterDiscern's avatar I have taken social psychology at Fanshawe College in London, Ontario.

All I will tell you is the beginning of the course focuses on behaviors of individuals, it seeks to understand the causes of social behavior and thought, systematic observation, correlation, causation and explanation etc.

I feel like you are trying to question my right to judge. Anyone can judge wether you are a grade three student, or a mill farm worker, its not against the law. I don't know you, and you don't know me, however what I have been reading from the previous pages says a lot. My text books have been rectified, scrutinized, and labored by several qualified and educated people throughout the world and their field research has been endless, just for one single book and to educate people like me. If I'm going to use their methodology that has been taught to me from the text, I'm not going to question its accuracy. ;)


Ask not what you can do for a coaster, but what a coaster can do for you.
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Sunday, July 6, 2008 4:16 PM
I may judge, but I will also be willing to respect your right to do the same. Maybe we can see eye to eye on one aspect on another.

Coaster Junkie from NH
I drive in & out of Boston, so I ride coasters to relax!

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 4:34 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar

CoasterDiscern said:

I feel like you are trying to question my right to judge.


You cannot feel a thought, you can only think it. Feelings are meant for emotions. Perhaps you will learn that in the next book you read. ;)

Can you or anyone else judge? Sure. But you need to be willing to support your judgments with sources and facts that sustain them. If you don't, you can still judge, but your credibility is shot.

I am not questioning the text, just it's application by the reader.

What are the words you have read in the past few pages of this thread that bring you to these conclusions about my emotional and cognitive processes? How do these words get applied using the lessons from your text in order to bring you to your conclusions?


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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