Cross-dresser sues Cedar Point

It should be interesting when I go to CP on Sunday.

---

I think he does have a case here. Like CPLady said, they wouldn't throw out a woman dressed like a man! So why should it be the other way around for a man dressed like a woman.

---

You have no argument there. Nowadays, you have girls with short hair, wearing jeans, overalls, things that used to be considered "men apparel". But when you say a woman dresses like a man, isn't that normal? I think every single woman has done it before. Wear a simple t-shirt with jeans or shorts with a pullover sweater instead of a fancy dress, halter top, tube top, etc.

But a man wearing lipstick, mascara, eye liner, perfume, a bra, a skirt, dress, halter top, bikini? That's unacceptable. The image of that is something children have nightmares about just the same as with clowns. Yes, it may be his own choice to dress like a woman, but if other people are greatly offended by that, then he has no right to enter a park with regulations and still expect to be not ejected. Like most people here argue - why is the ToS the way it is? Because Jeff makes the rules and if you don't follow them, then you're out. Nobody's going to sue Jeff just because his rules weren't fair and "embarrassed them".

So no, this man is just looking for some attention being the half and half that he is. If he wanted to go to a public place with a lot of people, then he should have gone to a gay bar instead.

-----------------
A CoasterForum Member
www.thrillnetwork.com/boards/index.php?referrerid=211

There are so many other things that could get CP in trouble. I'm not sure if this statement is correct but I think that homosexuals are a minority somewhat. I'm pretty sure it's clear that they're aren't more populated than hetrosexuals. The thing is, like everyone has been saying, what if a woman dressed like a man? Would she be kicked out the park for wearing a "costume"? It doesn't really make sense in my mind, that CP would kick someone out for this, just because of what their lifestyle happened to be. My question is, like many others, did he look like a woman in the dress? If it were a guy, who had a moustache, pot-belly, and hairy legs, and then dressed like a woman, then it could be offensive. Just like how I saw someone escorted from the park for wearing a shirt that said "Too Drunk to F*ck". It was very voger indeed and thats what should be kicked out of the park.

On the other hand, what if someone dressed in a Barney costume and came to the park, or a Batman costume, or simply a man came in a tux? Would they then be kicked out of the park? Those all seem like innocent costumes to me, and there is no use kicking them out of the park.Is there a problem with that?

Cricket,

I agree that the public has the right to offer suggestions to any business, but moreover I believe that the business can decide whether or not it wants to implement any criticisms of its patrons. People should be able to run a business without having to worry that their rights will be infringed upon as well.

You are nonetheless inaccurate in assuming that because half the populace voted for Al Gore that this is an indication of whether or not all those voters are supportive of a cross-dressing lifestyle. People vote for numerous reasons and often choose candidates who may have some views strongly in opposition to the voters personal opinions. For example, someone supportive of a pro-life stance could elect a Republican for that reason, but be anti-capital punishment. Another example more relating to this discussion could be people who elected Gore for his economic policies (like some people I know), but (like the same people) are not favorable towards cross-dressers as exhibiting acceptable behavior.

What a joke! Now I've heard just about everything. Cedar Point is a business, and should have THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE to any individual that they wish. Especially if some homo comes dressed up as a woman. I'd kick him right out of my park if I had one too.

I'm sure that I'm "narrow-minded" in the minds of some of you perfect people with perfect morals on this sight. That is my opinion though, so deal with it. When I see stuff like that it just disgusts the hell out of me.......

Men can pull off wearing women's clothes just as easily as women wearing men's clothes and still look good!

I am male, and like to wear Women's overalls(The ones that hug the hip, and flare out). I have worn them at Paramount Canada's Wonderland, my home park, and most recently at Cedar Point. I have not received any complaints, harrasment from park security, or patrons. In fact I have received compliments from males, and female patrons alike.

There is only a small percentage of people who actually may take offense to it, and honestly, it is their opinion...

This guy is looking for quick money. Yes it was wrong for Cedar Point to kick him because he wore a dress. But why did it take so long to file a lawsuit? Did he try to contact Cedar Point, and put in a valid complaint?

It is too easy to sue in America.

SLFAKE: You know what... I disagree with you on pretty much everything you've said, but at the same time I don't think you're stupid. That I can respect. Ball's comments were stupid and bigoted. I don't care to accept or tolerate stupid people.

-----------------
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Gay, Lesbian, and transgenered Day at Cedar Point. Hmmm...One of the things that we all know is that there is a huge gay and bisexual coaster enthusiast community. So wouldn't having one of those days be redundant?

Hasn't anyone at CP heard of Milton Berle? He was called Mr. Television, and I think there are plenty of Americans who turned out just fine after watching him dressed in drag (argue amongst yourselves).
-------------
B&M vs. Intamin? CCI vs. GCI? Who cares! They're all fun!

Don't the tickets say that park has the right to eject a guest from the park for any reason at any time?

kpjb - Thank you very, very much. Your comments are very well appreciated.

Chris - I'm not as obtuse as I might seem. I got it ;) And I wasn't offended in the least.

kRaXLeRidAh - Perhaps foolishly, I keep putting myself up as an example, but I'd like to think that children don't have nightmares about me. What you seem to indicate is that you find the image of a man in a dress offensive to your senses, and I do, too, in many cases. Our reasons, though, are probably as different as night and day. But, my real point seems to be that it's an unfair practice to single out an individual because they do not blend in. That is, if Cedar Point is going to operate under a policy that asserts people dressed as a gender that is not traditionally associated with their biological sex are considered to be wearing costumes, their enforcement of this policy needs to be consistent and complete. In reality, it absolutely can't be, unless Cedar Point asks that every guest submit to having their genitals examined before entry - or, truthfully, that they submit to genetic karyotyping in the case of people with ambiguous genitalia. Would you submit to have your bits and pieces examined so that you could rest assured that your sensibilities wouldn't be offended? I suspect not. So, then, there's no real way for Cedar Point to fairly enforce such a policy, and since I blend in, I can very, very easily violate said policy. Otherwise, they're being discriminatory on the basis of appearance. Where does the line get drawn?

Even then, who's the deciding force in what is male or female clothing? Females regularly wear pants, or even clothing that is purchased from men's departments. Why the double standard? I think it's because it's what society accepts. I don't think society is always right. There is, after all, that whole notion of mass hysteria to consider, isn't there?

Koppman - in the interest of enlightenment and education, I feel it's my duty to point out that a majority of cross-dressing males are not homosexual. In fact, gender identity and sexuality are unique, unrelated qualities. This is from personal experience. Somehow, though, I don't know if you'll be checking back in on this thread.

I've been good so far. Only a reply every few hours. Does this suggest I need to find more hobbies? :)

-----------------
~~~ M ~~~
In life you start the same as when you're done. If you lose, you're just where you've begun. If you win, remember what I said, don't quit while you're ahead. Who cares?

Lewis said:

On the other hand, what if someone dressed in a Barney costume and came to the park, or a Batman costume, or simply a man came in a tux? Would they then be kicked out of the park? Those all seem like innocent costumes to me, and there is no use kicking them out of the park.Is there a problem with that?

---

I'd have to guess that, no, a Barney costume would not be allowed. No costumes means no costumes - if you can pull something off your face, body, or whatever, and make yourself look totally different, you are in a costume. I hope for CP's sake, they have some decent wording in their policy. Guests have to be able to be identified for safety reasons - it's that simple. I'm sure this guy's argument will be, "well, this is how I look all the time!" If cross dressing is just a hobby, then why didn't he just change his clothes, take off his make-up, etc? They gave him his money back and I don't see how they could have caused him anymore embarassment or fear than he brings upon himself by being, well, different. I don't care what he wears, but some people just can't handle that type of stuff and I'm sure he's experienced plenty of people looking at him funny previous to his CP visit.

-----------------
-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

krax said: But a man wearing lipstick, mascara, eye liner, perfume, a bra, a skirt, dress, halter top, bikini? That's unacceptable. The image of that is something children have nightmares about just the same as with clowns.

I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to get at. If you *really* feel that a man dressing such a way is that damaging, it's a GREAT thing you didnt live in Shakespean times as all the female roles were played by male actors. And you must have REALLY hated the television show "In Living Color" which featured both a man in drag (Jamie Foxx as "Wanda") and one of those evil clowns (Damon Ways as "Homey the Clown")

And Matt, I like you *really* hope that CP has spelled things out *somewhere*. As I said before, it's not in their "Guide & Map to Fun!" but perhaps it was posted near the entrance. But wearing a toupee and glasses could alter a persons appearance, but I'm not certain a rational person would consider that a costume.

In the same vein, some rational person might consider an enthusiast who comes to the park wearing a coaster shirt, coaster hat, and a vest adorned with coaster buttons to be wearing a "costume". What if I wore my army fatigues (no I'm not nor never was in the military), is *that* a costume. Dear Sweet Mike I hope CP knows what they are doing with the "costume" bit.

-------------
"To get into this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do

Jeff: Why are you scared of the gothic kiddies? They are people too, you know.

Here we go again. People with a warped life style forcing themselves on the rest of society. If you can't get accepted, then sue and make it so. What a scam. Did you ever think that this persons intentions were just that? INTENTIONAL!!! The is no precident for a suit of this nature, so here we go, back to court. Next it will be a lawsuit over a persons proportions and ride design.

Just for the record Jeff. The pop-up ads are out of control.

-----------------
Def Leppard - "X" - July 30, 2002. *** This post was edited by Buzz Head on 6/14/2002. ***

I'm not scared of the goth kids... who do you think I hung out with in high school? I've been to a Cure concert or two. ;) I was illustrating a point.

Buzz Head: I'm sorry, I missed the part where these evil people were forcing themselves on you or anyone else.

There are three pop-ups per session. If you don't like them, join the club.

-----------------
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I'm going to throw in my two cents here, and try to make it as non-offensive as possible because there is a high likelihood that people are going to disagree with me.

First of all, by organizing such an event unofficially, you are basically trying to draw attention to yourselves at the park. For this reason, you are singling yourselves out, which all these groups claim they are NOT trying to do. Acceptance is about integration, not separation.

Now, if such an "alternative lifestyle" causes you to be ejected from the park, and a year later you decide to sue, it seems kind of fishy to me. And I think (just my opinion...bash me if you want) that this stems from a certain insecurity that these people feel over the fact that they are "different" from everyone else. If you want to take on the right to be different from people, then you should be willing to take responsibility for these differences and acknowledge them instead of suing everyone who is a "bigot" towards you.

And besides, he got his money back...in my opinion, there is no need for any monetary compensation because of that.

Now, feel free to rip on me...

-----------------
Nitro Dave -- ...who thinks "Oh Nick, Please Not So Quick" is a REALLY dirty song......
74 Laps
Track Record: 41 and counting...

I can back up Chernabog's statement that cross dressing is NOT related to sexuality. A friend of mine, who is married with three children, cross dresses with his wife's approval. He's not gay or bi, he just likes to dress like a woman. But not everyone understands this. People see a guy dressed like a woman (hip hugging shorts and halter tops, dresses) and automatically assume they are gay. I've seen guys dressed in shorts and halter tops at CP. To me, that is cross dressing as well. But I don't think they have ever been kicked out of the park for it.

When I go to CP wearing men's cargo pants or shorts and a t-shirt, I don't think anyone looks at ME funny and assumes I'm lesbian. Once again, it's all in other people's perception.

I've seen lots of women in dresses at CP (the Amish come to mind). So I can't see the "safety" issue. If the fella dresses in a dress all the time, is it really an identity issue? Not for him.

I will be very interested to see how this case is decided.

-----------------
I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead

---

First of all, by organizing such an event unofficially, you are basically trying to draw attention to yourselves at the park.

---

Is that the intention of enthusiast gatherings, sanctioned or not? I didn't think so. GTTP folk gather there because it's a good time for our group, not because we seek attention.

-----------------
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

As a matter of principle, this individual has no reason to feel embarrassed or shameful because of what they do. If you're going to point and laugh at them, that's your problem, not theirs. To say that they brought such behavior, and, thus, embarrassment, upon themselves is ludicrous. To a somewhat lesser degree, but still enough to make a point, that's exactly like arguing that a girl dressed in somewhat questionable attire is asking for cat calls, sexual harrassment, or even rape. Do you believe that to be true?

It's high-time that people start accepting that their actions have consequences, and that goes for both the cross-dresser and the members of the public who see them. You simply cannot place all of the blame for discomfort and embarrassment on the single individual because they don't fit into your mold of what's normal and proper. Who're you, anyway?

Now, I tend to strongly disagree with any type of separatist political activism like this. It seems immensely silly for an individual or group to say, "Treat me just like anyone else because I'm different!" I much favor a more personable, intimate approach that demonstrates an individual's own unique characteristics and personality. In other words, the mess around with a popular phrase, I try to see the trees for the forest. But, in the end, the only way gender-variant people have any hope for fair, equal treatment in the truest sense is to gain it through trust and understanding, and not legislation and litigation costs.

That said, discrimination, if that's what this was, does not deserve to go unpunished. That would be a great disservice to everyone.

CPLady - thank you for corroborating my assertion. Maybe people will listen to someone other than a crazy nutjob like myself

-----------------
~~~ Maddy ~~~
In life you start the same as when you're done. If you lose, you're just where you've begun. If you win, remember what I said, don't quit while you're ahead. Who cares? *** This post was edited by Chernabog on 6/14/2002. ***

hey chernabog,

of all the people engaged in this discussion, you are certainly the least likely to be called a "CRAZY NUTJOB"!!! your posts are well thought out, and seem to be quite sincear. Just because you are gay, or different, does not in any way indicate that you are crazy.

You might think that you were just joking, or that you are so used to thinking about yourself in that way, that you dont even realize that you are describing yourself with such self-hating words,

Pride demonstrates itself in everything that you do, and every word that you say