CP after 07 (No more Kinzel)

Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:37 PM
How will Kinzel's departure change CP? More importantly, what will 05 and 07 seasons bring?
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Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:39 PM
Is 2006 too good for rumor mongering or something?
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Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:43 PM
If they give the job to Jack Falfas... and I don't think there's anyone else in the company as qualified as he is, I wouldn't worry much about it.

Now if we could just figure out a way to get Keller out of there. I don't like the changes in company culture since he took up the GM position.

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Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:47 PM

Chernabog said:
Is 2006 too good for rumor mongering or something?

**waiting for someone to chime in with the default response: "CP doesn't add coasters two years in a row."**

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Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:02 PM
Surely by 2005 they will be no more space to put anything in ;)
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Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:35 PM
Jeff, from my understanding, Falfas is realitively new on the block when it comes to GMs. Wouldn't they give it to someone with more experience?
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Saturday, December 27, 2003 11:20 PM

**waiting for someone to chime in with the default response: "CP doesn't add coasters two years in a row."**


With the exception of 2002, 2003 and Wicked Twister and Top Thrill Dragster, respectively. However, I don't think the Point will add anything in 2006 in terms of a roller coaster.

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Saturday, December 27, 2003 11:47 PM

Jeff said:
Now if we could just figure out a way to get Keller out of there. I don't like the changes in company culture since he took up the GM position.

What? You mean you guys don't like your WOF hand-me-down? I thought that was everything CP wanted and more. Yes, we here at KC are very thankful to be rid of him. Phil Bender has done wonders with the park post Keller era.

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Saturday, December 27, 2003 11:50 PM
Uh... Falfas is the most senior VP in the company in terms of responsibility. He's got Knott's and all of the west coast waterparks. That's a hell of a lot more people than Cedar Point gates in a year.

I believe that he was VP of operations at CP, which by most accounts is the second in command behind the GM. Obviously he knows what he's doing or they wouldn't trust him with all that he has.

Of course, by that logic, you wonder how Keller got to CP's spot, but he apparently kept costs under control at Worlds of Fun (I think he went there circa 1995, but I'm not sure, and that would give him only two more years at a GM post than Falfas). He appears to be keeping costs under control at Cedar Point too, but as a leader and figure head he leaves a lot to be desired. Not only is he seldom seen in the park, but seasonals right up to his peers don't respect him. Miears wasn't always a favorite, but people generally seemed to feel he actually worked the job.

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Sunday, December 28, 2003 3:35 AM
Add Cedar Point regular visitors to the list of folks who don't respect him. Each year that has gone by since Keller arrived at my home park I've watched as, slowly, it's become more sterile, more impersonal, and more bare-bones. Not changes I like to see at all and it seems to be starting to affect morale among returning seasonals right on up through middle management.
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Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:54 AM
I think CP will be just fine. As far as new attractions, you never know what parks can squeeze in. Maybee even pushing the boundries into the parking lot. Cedar Fair would actually theme it, unlike some parks we know. Remember Cedar Point owns much property and moving things around can be done.

(Look for a new quality woody or a move towards a classic theming area, sorta like but not just like Lost Kennywood)

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Sunday, December 28, 2003 10:30 AM

Jeff said:
Of course, by that logic, you wonder how Keller got to CP's spot, but he apparently kept costs under control at Worlds of Fun (I think he went there circa 1995, but I'm not sure, and that would give him only two more years at a GM post than Falfas). He appears to be keeping costs under control at Cedar Point too, but as a leader and figure head he leaves a lot to be desired. Not only is he seldom seen in the park, but seasonals right up to his peers don't respect him. Miears wasn't always a favorite, but people generally seemed to feel he actually worked the job.

I think that Keller became the GM of WOF late season 1995, that's when CF:LP bought WOF from HME, if not then it was the beginning of 1996. One thing that Keller did while he was at WOF was to keep operating costs down. How he did this was very much "Paul Pressler-esque". He would cut corners on everything that the park would do (see Boomerang station if you have questions). He was more interested in the bottom line and ROI (if you can't get ROI it doesn't need to be done). Rotation of flowers, restoration of decaying facades, the changing of burned out lightbulbs were all seen as "unnecessary" and made the park look really bad - reminds you of how some of Disneyland looked before Quiomet took over for Harris.

Paul Bender has since done an excellent job of restoring the park to it's previous grandeur - he is even interested in keeping things "themed"! He has added to the park numerous flower beds and hanging baskets. Lightbulbs are very seldom seen burned out. The park has been replacing large areas of asphalt with concrete each year. Facades have received facelifts. He also has added to the very popular Halloweekends (which is said to grow even more this coming season, with a total of 3 adult haunt mazes - they have already announced that addition of another show.) I know a lot of people are upset with the decision to remove the Express for the 2004 season, but in actuality, it was to opperate for one more season before it was to be removed for the 2005 attraction (boy that's going to be a big year for CF:LP).

Back to the topic of Keller, he wasn't respected at WOF either. However we did see his greasy hair and suspenders in the park almost every day. Also when I was up at CP this summer I saw him both days I was there -- guess I was lucky (Well if you consider that luck). ;)

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Sunday, December 28, 2003 11:34 AM
Well, Keller has gotta be doing something right if its consistently ranked "the best amusement park in the world." Now, maybe Kinzel has more to do with that then anything, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

When Kinzel retires, whoever takes his position will have some large shoes to fill. And it does sound like Jack Falfas could possibly be the best man for the job.

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Sunday, December 28, 2003 2:32 PM
I'm not sure about this, but I thought I read somewhere that Falfas said he didn't want to have to move him and his family back somewhere after the big move to SoCal. I could be completely wrong about that, but just something I remember. A number of the GM's are over 25 years with CF and you have to wonder when they will retire. If I'm not mistaken, Albino (GM of DP) is 1, maybe 2 years younger in terms of seniority than Falfas. I know that he has been at DP since 95. I'm not saying he will take Kinzel's place, but I think he is only second to Falfas.
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Sunday, December 28, 2003 11:41 PM
CP's success has little to nothing to do with Dan Keller. Everything new since he started was on the drawing board prior to his return to the park.

I've heard that about Falfas as well, from one of his former co-workers back in the CP days. But the truth is, aside from the fact that Cedar Fair's board is mostly Cleveland-based, I don't see why he couldn't run the show from SoCal.

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Monday, December 29, 2003 12:17 AM
More points here is that Falfas, (my old boss many days ago) is very dedicated. This guy started on the Antique Cars in Frontier Town in the early 70's. He knows the ins and outs of CF two largest parks.

John Albino has been there almost as long, and has made the successful jump from VP of Foodservice to 'big boss' at Dorney. While I personally think Dorney's food could improve, the park overall has improved year to year.

They might leave Falfas as the Kinzel successor and still oversee the West Coast, spending several days every month in Sandusky, and move Albino to CP as the new GM, and he oversees the other parks in the company.

Its a shame Don Miers retired. He knew ops and maintenence quite well. On the latter, Falfas has been exposed to west coast operations, and goes head to head with SF, Busch, and Disney.

If you are going to expand, you need someone who knows how to operate a 'west coast offense'. It goes to Falfas. *** Edited 12/29/2003 5:19:06 AM UTC by Agent Johnson***

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Monday, December 29, 2003 8:32 AM
I am not sure Don retired completely under his own terms. Some would say that the CP GM has less authority b/c of the presence of Kinzel.
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Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:13 PM
Kinzel (I think) said that he would like to see a floorless, flyer, and a mega lloper at the park. Right?
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Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:53 PM
No, I was pretty sure that Kinzel said he wished that Intamin would make floorless and flyer coasters just like B&M. Obviously, he was expressing his affection for Intamin's rides despite the problems with TTD. (I thought I read somewhere that Intamin picked up the bill to repair it) But, since Intamin doesn't make those kinds of rides, they will probably buy them from B&M.
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Wednesday, December 31, 2003 8:41 PM
And where exactly did he say all of this outside of the minds of enthusiasts?
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