coincidence or on purpose?

Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:19 PM

You know what I've noticed. I've noticed that the top three SF parks (SFMM, SFGAd, SFGAm), all have many similarities. Do you think this is why they are the most successful? See, here is my point:

1. All three have Arrow Megaloopers. Now does any other SF park have one?

2. They all have racing woodies. Not many other SF parks have them either.

3. They all have Batmans, but that's no biggie.

4. They all have two woodies.

5. They've all had standups (SFGAd, used to have intamin's Shockwave).

6. They've all had prototypes, that have been successful. Inverted, Floorless, 4D (kinda).

7. SFGAm and MM have Deja Vu's.

8. They all have LIM coasters. And all three of those are shuttle.

9. Two have cyclone clones.

10. All three are located by the three biggest metros in the U.S. NY, L.A., and Chicago.

11. All three of these are included in the four parks that are supposed to get something big in 2003.

Now the next two to follow those three parks are SFOG, and SFOT, and if you compare those to these you will see even more similarities. Now compare the lower parks, SFEG, SFKK, SFNE, SFAW, and they barely even compare with these.

My question is, does SF follow a pattern., or is this all just coincdence?

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Anyone care for some roast beef?

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:35 PM
I Would definitly NOT put SFNE with SFEG, SFKK, or SFAW. It goes more with SFStl. or SFMW, or SFA. And its all coincidence imho.

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Im the #1 Canobie Lake Park Fan!!!These are my top 3 coasters:
1. S:RoS @ SFNE 2. Yankee Cannonball 3. Cyclone/B:TDK

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:50 PM

Yeah, SFNE definitly does not belong in the neglected park section.

I think it is just the fact that SF knows how to run it's park chain. Think about it, all those cities are relativly similar in size. SF didn't plan on those parks being that similar, it just happened that way. Remember that SF usually buys parks that are already pre-built, and they just add to them.

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:54 PM
I wouldn't exactly call the floorless a prototype. Just added a different kind of train and didn't really introduce any stunning new technology.
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Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:55 PM

SFDL also has a megalooper. However, your number 10 should explain why all 3 of these parks have so many things. Huge population bases. It is a patern, SF loves clones, that explains a lot of the similarities. Also, GAdv has 1 woodie, and if you're counting racers as 2, then it has 2, while GAm and MM have 3.

BTW, you forgot to mention one of the most important prototypes at SFMM, Revolution. Just think of where we'd be today if we didn't have vertical loops... the mother of all inversions! (Yeah, corkscrew was the first sucessful inverting ride, but loops are the mother of them all, they've been around for nearly 100 years.)

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:58 PM

They are successful because they fall into great locales. Contrary to what SF believes, the similarities in ride selections has very little to do with it.

Each of the highly successful SF parks pull from large population meccas. The same can be said of most successful corporate parks.

Shaggy

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Shaggy

R.I.P. Maestro
Phantom Theater 1992-2002

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 8:03 PM
Yeah but Shaggy, if population was the *only* key, SFAW would be raking in the dough right up there with the other 3 since Houston is #4 in size! But since it doesnt have comparable rides, you wont see comparable success.
jeremy
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"To get into this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do
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Saturday, August 24, 2002 8:14 PM

You know, SFAW is a reall oddity. My home office is based in Houston and of couse all the folks there all know my interest to coasters. I have never once heard a person there speak poorly of SF Astroworld. As a whole, the GP there (as far as I can tell) think it is a terrific park and the rides are just fine.... they just don't go. I went to the park last year while on a business trip and the very next day the folks there were waiting with baited breath to get my reaction. When I was less than enthusiastic, they were in shock.

So, I am not so sure that SFAW's downfall is necessarily the ride selection. Probably a part of it, but not mainly.

The only thing that helps me rationalize it is the fact that it is in basically a remote, now poorly developed, and un-interesting part of town. I think redevlopment on the complete side of Houston basically killed that park over the years. It is also in a city that often has an unbearably humid climate. Thus the popularity of the waterpark Shlitterban (or whatever it is) within the region.

I bet given a better locale, it would flourish.

Shaggy

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Shaggy

R.I.P. Maestro
Phantom Theater 1992-2002

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 8:20 PM

It's pretty obvious that any chain with the vast number of parks that Six Flag's runs is going to group parks into a basic three tier system. There are the mega parks, the medium parks, and the small parks. It is also obvious that, since cloning is common practise and there aren’t *that* many different types of coasters, that the parks will have similarities to other parks of similar size. I mean they are run by the same chain. For example, and I hate to bring CF into a SF topic, most Cedar Fair parks have an out and back hyper - coincidence? I think not.

And what determines that size of the park? The simple answer is attendance and surrounding population base, hence:


10. All three are located by the three biggest metros in the U.S. NY, L.A., and Chicago.


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The Other Siebert

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 9:20 PM
well, AW and OT meet the same amount of criteria, so I don't think SF follows a pattern at all. AW is unsuccessful because Premier makes it that way...before Premier bought SF, AW was MUCH more successful. In 1999, there was a severe lack of attendance, and it's been going down since. Same with FT and probably all of the parks that aren't in the big 4.

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http://www.houstonthrills.com - New Site Design!

*** This post was edited by Houston Thrills on 8/25/2002. ***

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Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:52 PM

Here's another similarity :

- All three have monster hyper-coasters ;)

- All three have a ride named Viper (not that big of a deal)

- These parks recieved the first Batman The Ride(s). SFGAm 1992; SFNJ 1993; SFMM 1994.

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Sunday, August 25, 2002 4:35 AM

Shaggy:

Schliterbahn is 200 miles away in San Antonio.

Certainly one of SFAW's major problem is it's land locked. SF could try to steal some people from Indiana Beach to figure out how to pack in more stuff, but the problem still exists that it is hard to pack in more than so many people in a given area.

When I lived in Houston in 1970, Astroworld seemed to be very popular. I think that kills the hot, humid weather issue. Besides, Orlando is just as hot and humid, plus gets twice as many thunderstroms.

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Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:14 AM
Actually Jim, there is a second schlittebahn in south padre island which is in spitting distance from Houston.

Shaggy, I *personally* though SFAW was a more than decent park, better setting than SFKK and better "guest service" than SFA. But maybe the new stadium right across the way and the hype of the Texans will help bring them some business

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"To get inside this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do

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Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:24 AM
2Hostyl: The new Schlitterbahn, Schlitterbahn Beach, is farther from Houston than the original. It's near Brownsville, close to the Mexican border.
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Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:40 AM
Six Flags GAdv doesn't have two woodies, just the one racing one, and they don't even use both tracks. Besides, I thought that park was "pulling the whole park chain down" because of the low attendance figures this year.
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Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:52 AM
No, I think that would be SFWoA. ;)

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LocoBazooka--Sevendust, Nonpoint, Stereo Vent, Mushroomhead
Korn Tour (With no name)--Korn, Puddle of Mudd, Deadsy

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Sunday, August 25, 2002 10:22 AM

WOW...a CP fanboy doesnt like SFWoA...

I think the real reason the 3 are so similar is because they have been part of the chain for a long time. Same with SFoG. Most of your points aren't that good (Arrow, Cyclone clones, Viper is bad (except SFGam), Their racers aren't too good...

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Since Jeff made Track Record a "perk" for CB members i'll just post my count here: Coasters:99 Parks:14

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Sunday, August 25, 2002 10:33 AM
WOW SFWoA's attendance is down 6%, looks like the GP doesn't either.

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Arrow Engineer: "Well, we just tested the prototype Suspended with an inversion and the car broke off the stick thing. We plan to reuse the stick things on a future prototype called a 4th dimension."

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Sunday, August 25, 2002 12:12 PM
CP's was down 3% in 2001 and i didn't see any one say theyre bringing the chain down.
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Sunday, August 25, 2002 12:25 PM

I don't know what this guy's talking about now. GAdv doesn't have a standup either. CPgenious, it can't be WOA, because they don't have a standup either. I think this guy's misinformed. Oh, by the way, I have one question I'm hoping someone can answer. Would Batman &Robin: The Chiller at GAdv count as one or two coasters? I originally counted them as one in my TR, but I remember hearing people say that you can count dueling coasters as two since the track varies slightly on them, so does that count on this one two? Thanks for any help.

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