Cedar Point removing Frontier Fling?

Yeah, they don’t compete for business. Joe from northern Alabama who hauls the kids up to a cabin in Pigeon Forge for a week every summer has never heard of Cedar Point and certainly doesn’t give a rip about advertising driven popularity contests in an industry trade publication.

Except a lot of people from Ohio also go to Pigeon Forge on an annual basis. So comparisons will be made.

Sharpel007:

CP hasn’t had a dark ride since 1996, also a dark ride anyone can ride, and in all weather.

They'd still find a way to close it every time there's a passing shower over Toledo.

Yeah, they don’t compete for business.

I was mainly talking philosophically as the flagship park of each business.

That being said.

Except a lot of people from Ohio also go to Pigeon Forge on an annual basis

Both CP and DW are unique because they are hubs to much larger popular vacation areas, CP Lake Erie Shores and Islands, DW The Smokeys, hence why both have multiple hotels, and etc, compared to other regional parks.

Having went to both last year, I mentioned the other at the other alot, and people knew what each was. If I mentioned Dorney I got a blank stare.

The Smoky Mountains are the home of the most popular national park, by visitor count.

The Lake Erie Shores and Islands are Not That.

In particular, I'd bet money that CP generates tourism visits on the order of the rest of the area put together. It's the reason many people go to the southwest corner of Lake Erie. In contrast, Dollywood is a thing people do while they are in the Smokies.

Sharpel007:

I was mainly talking philosophically as the flagship park of each business.

They are businesses. They aren't concerned with "philosophical" competition, whatever that is.

And while "lots" of people may visit Pigeon Forge from Ohio, I doubt very many of those are making their decsions to travel there based on the ride offerings at Cedar Point and Dollywood.

The Lake Erie Shores and Islands are Not That.

In 2023, the Lake Erie Shores and Islands region in Ohio welcomed an estimated 13 million visitors, which was a record-breaking year for tourism in the area. This generated $3.1 billion in tourism sales, which was a 17% increase from 2021.

The Great Smoky Mountains National Park had 13.3 million visitors in 2023, which was a 3% increase from 2022.

They aren't concerned with "philosophical" competition, whatever that is.

Lol, you must not have taken a Business Class or been around anyone with an MBA. Every SF quarterly report is stuffed with Business Philosophy.

Rides somewhat matter, what is more important is getting them to spend more, better food, better lodging, longer stays, better merch, etc. The whole concept they keep selling is that they can turn around the SF parks by doing what they have done to the flagship CF parks to the SF flagship parks.

This does apply to rides too, if all you do is serve records and enthusiast, you will lose large families, and thus end up with the customer base and issues legacy SF parks have left.

Philosophy shapes the whole damn business.

I don't think you need to be a dick about it, especially to a college professor. I'm confident his academic record is better than yours.

And also, no, philosophy is not what drives business. Pretty sure they teach that for an MBA. I mean, if you don't have an MBA, do any of us really exist?

Right. That's the National Park. Just the national park. Not the whole area.

Honestly, if you think that Sandusky is the same thing as Gatlinburg, you have never been to at least one of them.

Also, in fairness: having a PhD in computer science means jack-all when it comes to the things that MBA-types know. I know this primarily because both of my brothers (and both of their spouses) have MBAs: Two from Kellogg @ Northwestern, one from Ross @ Michigan, and one from Mendoza @ Notre Dame.

Honestly, if you think that Sandusky is the same thing as Gatlinburg, you have never been to at least one of them.

I was born and raised in Sandusky, and have been to Eastern TN once in the early 90s and last year.But what I am saying is the Shores and Island attracts over 9 million visitors if you subtract the roughly 3.5 to 4 million CP visitors. And Im sure Pigeon Forge and Gaitlinburg attracts more, but not Orlando levels. But my main point wasn’t semantics or statistics just that both parks are in a region with other mainly natural things that attract millions of visitors unlike say Allentown, PA or Jackson, NJ.

I'm confident his academic record is better than yours

I have a MA in Design History from Sothebys in London, and BA in History from OSU, with a minor in Design. And was in the MBA track for a year. And exc

And also, no, philosophy is not what drives business.

I know both of us love Ouimet and what Matt is going on about is definitely more business philosophy about the customer, then anything Kinzel thought.