Cedar Fair to buy SFWoA

Jeff, that should be excellent for the park if they finally get enough people (or maybe this is due to everything being so spread out) to operate the coasters at more than 2-train op. I have always had walk-ons on everything besides X-Flight, so getting pissy about Batman or Villain not running 3 trains didn't cross my mind since I wasn't waiting. Same with the one-train op on Big Dipper and Wolf Bobs. I wasn't waiting anyways, so why complain that they weren't running more trains? There are a lot of things to think about.

I know you've talked about hearing that dangerous things may have been happening at the park with some of the employees, but I was hoping the retraining process they mentioned at NCC was going to change that anyways. It seems like they were on the right track at that point. I just hate that everyone is talking about SFWOA as if it was dirt and did nothing for the amusement industry and now the Cedar Fair is subtracting some of the things I liked about the park, some people seem to be really interested. I never saw uncleanliness, rude employees, unsafe conditions, and all myself, so if you'll see from my perspective, a lot of it is hard to understand. I think their eyes were just bigger than their stomachs could handle, so little problems may have come up here and there.

CF has the advantage here in not having to hire the number of people needed for the WL side, so it will look as if everything is much better too. If SF only operated the rides side (I thought 2000 at the park was incredible), it probably could have worked out. But still, the wildlife side mixed with some rides over there was really interesting and it was a real megapark like I hadn't seen before. And I'll never be able to see it the same way again. :(

I'm not turning my back on the park or anything though. I'm still listening...

-Danny *** Edited 3/10/2004 9:12:37 PM UTC by Koaster King***

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Impulse-ive said:
Their pass isn't and really now that I think about it, SHOULDN'T be accepted anywhere else.

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Except I shouldn't have to pay for another SF season pass. I don't care if GL doesn't accept any other SP. I don't really want to visit the park again anyway!

The problem I have is I should not have to pay for another SF pass when the one I have has already been used! SF already has my $60 for my 2004 season pass, why should I have to go to another SF park and pay for another season pass?
*** Edited 3/10/2004 9:15:58 PM UTC by rOLLocOASt***

I totally agree with that. I was going to buy a pass at SFWOA last October, but wasn't able to because they claimed they were taking pictures for the '04 passes yet. I would've been in the same boat as you with living too far away to go back and not even planning to actually use the pass at SFWOA. I really don't see why SF wouldn't honor the passes at their other parks. The best bet would probably be to contact Six Flags(probably the corporate offce) to ask them if the passes would be honored at other parks. *** Edited 3/10/2004 9:31:08 PM UTC by Sue***

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Antuan said: I wonder if this means that all their debt will be all paid off? I heard it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 milllion (I may be wrong though)

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Their debt is $2 billion. They still have a long way to go.

I agree as well. I bought, paid for, and processed (and paid for THAT) my Six Flags pass already. Now I need to buy another one?

There are far bigger issues for the parks to worry about, but this little detail DOES affect the consumer in the process. The simple solution would be "that Six Flags pass is still good at Six Flags parks, next year you'll have to get it elsewhere".

Six Flags also sold it's European parks. However, the annoucement from six flags doesn't say to who. Has anyone heard who is buying the six flags parks in Europe.

That was my point Greg. SF already has your money so it shouldn't matter to them for you to use it at any SF park.

Ok did I miss something or did Six Flags cut in to the Cedar Fair conference call and announce that SFWoA passes were now invalid at SF parks? I don't have time at work to re-read everything, but as far as I saw, it only stated that an SFWoA pass with Superman on it won't get you in the door at Geauga Lake this year. Nowhere in there does it say its not good at SF parks elsewhere. If you never intended to visit WoA with your WoA pass, unless SFI issues a statement otherwise, your plans haven't been affected.

Now me? Screw SF, gimme GL ;) (loved the rides, hated the service ... )

OK... this totally changes my PKI/SFWoA trip.

Now instead of costing about $30 it'll cost about $130. Does anyone know if CF allows you to buy day passes online? Do you think that option will be available for GL? I know the park passes are A LOT cheaper with that option. *** Edited 3/10/2004 9:35:15 PM UTC by rentzy17***

Their debt is $2 billion since when though? If they just got $345 million, they're down to around $1.65 billion if this is a current number. It gets them closer. A lot of companies get into debt and some have quite a bit of it and continue to stay alive. I personally think it would be best for SF to sell off some parks and get down to around 10-12 and just work more closely with all of them to succeed. Some of their parks still do big numbers than I expect such as SFDL and SFA without adding anything at all. SF seems to be playing it safe in 2004, so I'm thinking their debt will decrease even more. I'm not a professional, so these are all just wild guesses. ;)

-Danny

Going back to what Gonchar said about a combo ticket possibly being offered in the future for Cedar Point and Geauga Lake. I think that would be a great idea, awesome way to expose a new park (to the company) with an already well known park. Since the hotel and campground at GL are part of the purchase than a shuttle from one park to the other, but limited only to those staying in a Cedar Fair hotel, would be a great idea. I know that if I were staying at a Cedar Point hotel (live 6 hrs away so it's really a necessity) and if they offered me a combo ticket and free shuttle to GL than I'd be very willing to pay the extra price for the second park and experience some diffrent rides.

This would work even better if they do turn GL into an excellent family park, as that's who the hotels are really aimed at.

First off I didn't even open this thread until about 15 minutes ago because I thought it was going to be a bunch of garbage. But watching it grow, quickly, and other topics pop up made me look. WOW is my reaction.

But having thought about it I agree with Koaster King on many points. One of the things that made SFWoA a unique experience was the wildlife side. As an avid scuba diver I loved spending time in the aquarium and watching the shows on the wildlife side. By losing that aspect of the park, CF is killing something that is special to a lot of patrons.

Without the wildlife the park is a run of the mill amusement park. Sure they have a couple of outstanding rides, but what exactly do they have to offer to out of state families (not enthusiasts) to convince them to spend a day at GL instead of CP or on the beach? I can't think of anything. The concept of getting into the bus with your kids and riding for over an hour with several other families to ride a floorless or flying coaster doesn't sound that appealing to me, even as an enthusiast.

Another point that was brought up before was relating the Disney parks and the Universal parks and how they all succeed in close proximity to this issue. I don't think that you can point to Disney to say that this will be successful for CF. Each Disney park offers something different to its guests. I haven't been to any of the Universal parks, but it appears that IOA is an amusement park full of thrill rides and USF is more about the making of the movies with some thrill rides. What is unique between CP and GL for the average guest. The wildlife would be something, but now it's gone. They are basically the same thing in the eye of a regular person, one's just bigger.

Now don't get me wrong. Anything can happen here. It depends on how GL is marketed. I was merely focussing on earlier statements stating how GL will help CP bring in more people and get them to stay longer. Maybe, but I think that's pushing it.

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Incidentalist said:

As an avid scuba diver I loved spending time in the aquarium and watching the shows on the wildlife side.

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As an avid Scuba Diver it pained me to see the condition the aquatic animals were in when I visited that park. While I'm glad the animals won't be there anymore, it upsets me that they are still in Six Flags custody.

^ "The concept of getting into the bus with your kids and riding for over an hour with several other families to ride a floorless or flying coaster doesn't sound that appealing to me, even as an enthusiast."

I'd agree, but like you say if the wildside part of the park was there, and if they really make an excellent family park out of the old Worlds of Adventure than I'd defintly be willing to hop on a bus with kids for an hour+ bus ride since the park would offer something very diffrent than what Cedar Point offers. I'm not saying that Cedar Point isn't a family park, but having the wildlife at GL is what would make it really stand out.

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but what exactly do they have to offer to out of state families

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They're not going to go after out-of-state families. They're looking for the single day visitors from the immediate region.

Cedar Fair has zero experience with animal operations. It would be silly for them to get into that business. Plus this opens the door for all kinds of options down the road. It's a little early to say the temporary closing of that side means anything.

I don't like the whole thing about GL being secondary to CP. I mean, without the wildlife side I guess it's already down a couple rungs than what I saw in it before. They could make it to CP what Dutch Wonderland is to Hershey proportionally, but I don't know. I know right where Incidentalist is coming from too.

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Couple of points here. Cedar Fair never got the revenue for those season pass sales already made by Six Flags. That and with the low price they were already sold at might be the reason why they are not honoring the passes at other locations. It sucks but they are running a business

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Cedar Fair got GL for a steal...much less then what Six Flags put into it. When you combine the passholder revenue from food, games and merchandise with the great deal they got, they'd be even farther ahead. So from my point of view, season pass financials should not even be an issue.

I think it's kind of silly to say that neither park chain's pass will work there. Doesn't seem like good business sense to me. I really don't know what they are thinking. How do they expect to attract people to GL this year, if they cut it's size in half and put up barriers to current passholders of either chain?

I think in the long run this will be a good thing. But for this year...eh...I say they should have just closed the place for '04 and rebuild it the way they wanted. Would have made more sense to me.

*** Edited 3/10/2004 10:14:43 PM UTC by Coasterbuf***

The way that I read it, they may offer a 'CP/GL Combo Season Pass'. I dont think it would be fair to pay extra for GL privliges. Its not like I have to pay extra for a CP pass to allow entrance to Dorney. A CP (or any CF) pass is good at all CF parks, so this shouldn't change. I'd be mad if they made GL an extra charge for '05.

Funny, I thought a season pass was originally purchased to get you admission into the park for the entire season that the pass was purchased for, or at least, that seems to be the logic behind the implementation of it in the first place. I seem to recall the days when that was just the case and you did not receive free admission to any other park in the chain.

Cedar Fair appears to be at least giving you an out by letting SFWOA passholders have a refund. To me, they want to see who really wanted to use those passes at SFWOA and get the value out of their pass at the home park. If the renewal price was $60, if you think you cannot get $60 of value in a single season at the revised GL, then it shows that Six Flags had some serious issues to correct even before it bought Sea World.

Yea this whole season pass issue boils down to spoiled enuthsiasts ... party's over folks, get used to it ... (at least for this year)