Cedar Fair Racers

Regarding Mantis, CP should go look at how Six Flags Magic Mountain runs Riddler's Revenge. I went on a quiet day last year and they had 2 trains running without any stacking. My friend went another time and they had 3 trains running and they were barely stacking the trains! What's different about the way CP runs Mantis compared to SFMM and Riddler's Revenge?

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Dusa65 said:Gemini runs one side from opening until 11:30am. It will go up to both sides from 11:30 until roughly 8:00pm, depending on crowds. ..... Why have four trains running along the tracks during those times if there is only one or one and a half trainloads cumulatively between them?

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You're correct. When i was able to see Gemini at other times in the day (from the tops of other coasters or from my Breakers room), it was indeed running both sides. Of course I never managed to pass by it in order to ride it when it was running both sides.

What I believe they should do is reduce the crew numbers, cordon off some rows if needed, and reduce it to one train on Each Side. The racing aspect is the best part of the ride, its called Gemini for a reason!

YAY! I liked Rebel Yell forwards on the left side. Now just switch Gemini around so you can slap five with people you are facing and we'll be all set.

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Absimilliard said:
Regarding Mantis, CP should go look at how Six Flags Magic Mountain runs Riddler's Revenge. I went on a quiet day last year and they had 2 trains running without any stacking. My friend went another time and they had 3 trains running and they were barely stacking the trains! What's different about the way CP runs Mantis compared to SFMM and Riddler's Revenge?

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It's called "Your seats will be locking." *seats lock* "Clear." That's how Riddler operates. You want to stand? Stand. You want to sit? Sit. You want your feet to dangle over the floor? Do it. They don't care. Mantis ops do an amazing job of making sure that everyone in the train is riding properly, and it requires them to go through and adjust numerous seats every train. Again, safety. Additionally, Riddler has a longer ride cycle than Mantis, which also gives them an edge in avoiding stacking.

It may indeed have to do with CF not wanting liability shifted to them from PTC.

I know of a certain park that wanted to run one side of its racer backwards for Halloween, and was told by PTC that they wanted nothing to do with the process, and couldn't help them out with any modifications.

Honestly, though, they already run that way and do it safely, and it does lend a certain uniqueness to these 3 parks. It just seems like another case of "y'know what'd be fun? Let's make everything as bland as possible! People love that!"

Lets see if American Eagle goes back to both sides forward, That would tell you if it was a PTC mandate

There has been at least one year (two years ago?) when the Mantis crew had two trains humming, and *might* have been able to make use of a third. I don't know what they were doing differently, but they were doing it.

I can't believe that they are doing that! I went to Kings Dominion last year during the Halloween Haunt and we rode the one train that goes backwards. Man was it scary as anything. The only reason that I could see them doing that would be because sometimes when you would hit the base of the drop your back would get slammed up against the seat.

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Charles Nungester said:
Lets see if American Eagle goes back to both sides forward, That would tell you if it was a PTC mandate

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American Eagle went back to both sides going forward in 2006.

That sucketh, the coasters already bad enough

Hmmm....Don't know if this is meaningful to the discussion or not, but...

There exists a bulletin from PTC dated 12/01/1991 which states that,

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Philadelphia Toboggan Coasters, Inc. does not nor has it ever recommended or approved running PTCI coaster cars backward for the following reasons:
1. The fact that body dynamics change when seated backwards, which will result in completely different reactions upon the human body.
2. A person who is unable to view forward motion cannot physically prepare for the effects of the ride before they occur.

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Hmmm...In light of #2, how come PTC sells coaster cars with headrests?

The other interesting thing is that the chain clutch/safety dog assembly is designed in such a way that it can be attached to the car in four different ways: at the front of the car, at the back of the car, or reversed at either position. On trains such as those on the Kings Island Racer, moving and reversing that clutch, and reversing the polarity of the lap bar release bus-bars (maybe not even that if they're AC) are the only changes required to make the trains run backward. So even if the PTC trains are not approved to run backward, they do seem to be designed for it.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Charles Nungester said:
That sucketh, the coasters already bad enough

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Are you referring to American Eagle? Although the operation of the ride sucketh - the ride experience seems to be consistently good over the past few years.

That ending helix will always stink...

I dare anyone to find a wood coaster that is as tall or taller than the Eagle that is as much fun. They're pretty much all dead beat rides now...

Alot of the American Eagle's 'pretty good' ride experience is due (I believe) to the steel I-beam tracks on the entire out-run.

I'm admitting to being hypocritical - b/c one could easily (I'm sure some are typing!) that El Toro and the plug-n-play woodies are bigger and better - but personally, those are steel coasters made out of wood. And the American Eagle does have steel I-Beam track (top 2 wood layers though...), so I'm just padding my head before I get hit ;)

^ Steel I-Beam tracks are not used at any point on the American Eagle. The cross-ties on the out-run are steel, but the actual track is just like any other wooden coaster track.

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SFGAm Shock Wave said:
^ Steel I-Beam tracks are not used at any point on the American Eagle. The cross-ties on the out-run are steel, but the actual track is just like any other wooden coaster track.

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I got pictures if you would like to see :) Even when you ride, you can see them. They are about from 1/3 way down the drop to the top of the helix.

Texas Giant has them on the first drop (it was built that way). From what I hear, Colossus has them all over (ask Moosh). Screamin' Eagle has them on the 2nd pull-out...

Trust me, before they put those beams in, that was one of the most painful runs on any coaster. Late 80's/early 90's.

All things being equal, it's imperative for PTC to state that their trains are designed to run "per manufacturer's instructions/intended use only". This will relieve PTC of SOME DEGREE of liability should something occur while the train is run backwards. Remember the seatbelt rule? Again, given the litigious nature of our society, PTC had to insist on seatbelts. You can run your train without them if you want (at least one park does), but if it's found that injuries suffered *could reasonably/foreseeably have been prevented by their use*, then PTC has reduced its exposure exponentially. Remember, when filing lawsuits, "everybody with a wallet" is listed in the complaint. And nobody can predict what twelve of our "peers" might do. ;)

By the same token, if the park is operating a coaster fully compliant with all manufacturer's instructions, then the park has other potential defendants more likely to cover the lion's share of any award/settlement. The SFKK incident is obviously fresh on our minds....and a few potential defendants have already taken a hit as some facts have come to light.

Dave, I'm gonna take a stab at the headrests and say they're the result of a misguided attempt to keep the head from snapping back....whiplash prevention.

Yeah but I'd rather have whiplash than a cracked skull...

I sent a email to a fellow enthusiast friend of mine talking about just how confused people are going to be at KD this year:

1) Several ride names changed?
2) No backwards Rebel Yell?
3) What happened to Hypersonic XLC?
4) Last, but not least, Dominator being built in the parking lot. Remember that the last high-profile coaster geared towards a thrill-seeking crowd was H:XLC in 01'.

From my personal observations over the years, backwards Rebel Yell was always more popular than the forward side. It was interesting riding the backwards side because you couldn't sense where the bottom of the first drop was and the turnaround just felt weird. Your body was expecting to go one way, and you of course went the other way instead.

With the loss of the backwards side, I say they go ahead one of these years and tear down one side giving them plenty of room for an out-and-back hypercoaster. I know it's heresy, but I think the numbers won't support both sides being run (supporting what someone said earlier).

As far as The Racer goes at KI, one of my crew this summer said he would have rather been on The Villain. I sat both out last year so I can't compare, but if my 02' ride was any indication, the ride needs a whole lot of TLC. I also rode Thunder Road in 02', but I don't remember it being that bad on either side.

Actually, CoasterComet, on Colossus, the trackbed appears to me to be entirely conventional, but instead of having two pieces of 5" steel plate for the wheels to run on (one on top, one on the inboard side), they use a piece of steel plate that is about 18" wide and bent over the edge of the track to serve as both the running surface and the side friction surface. But it's wrapped around ordinary wood track. I wonder if I got any decent photos of that...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I never really like going backwards, so I don't mind the change. :)

Let's not forget why Racer was turned around in the first place, The Bat was not operating so they needed something fun for people to do.

Now if they switch the trains around people will be mad that they can't ride The Bat!!!