Cedar Fair finalizes 2001 expenditures

I don't get that either apf. You would think if they were going to clone Superman, there would at least be one on the West Coast. Of course that's just my selfishness talking LOL!

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Take a picture, it will last longer...

Previously posted by Jeff - "Arbitron actually puts KC as market #30 now. Compare that to the other parks that sit in the middle of several top-30 markets. Knott's is ground zero in the massive SoCal markets while Cedar Point sits between Detroit (#7), Cleveland (#24), Akron (#68), Columbus (#34), etc. That's why those two parks can draw 3 million people every year and get a quick ROI. "

Yeup and that's why Knott's and Cedar Point seemingly has been getting larger more stand-out attractions in comparison to WoF, Valleyfair!, and Dorney Park. Because a Millenium Force in the Kansas City area won't do so good than if it were in a park like Cedar Point where the population in the market area is much larger.

Oh mike the attendance figures can be found here
http://www.screamscape.com/facts/ThemeParkAttendance_2000.html


Dustijn
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Scorching the Competition in 2001
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You have something better on the West Coast, it's called Goliath. Why would you want a SRoS?

Dustijn
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Scorching the Competition in 2001
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I think a lot of people underestimate the people here in the KC area. We aren't nieve country-folk who don't know of the outside world. Most people here do travel a lot, and do go to other parks. When at WoF people ALWAYS comment on how much better Mr. Freeze is, on how much better SFStL is, and how much better all their rides are. We do leave the KC metropolitian area. Most people thought the bootoo.merang was a waste, not a fantasic new ride. Just because they'd never been on it, doesn't make it fun.

It seems now that everyone at the park is commenting on how much it has changed throughout the last 5 years. It has absolutely zero theme compared to what it used to. With the millions they spent on Boomerang, they could've fixed up the Zambezi Zinger to its former glory (if you haven't seen it at it's new home- it looks GREAT). And those who think we don't have enough patrons to draw a profit with a B&M- I'd have to say you're wrong. The only reason attendance is down is because everyone said they aren't going to waste their money to ride 3 rollercoasters, expecially when you can go across the state to ride 6 coasters.

Then there is Silver Dollar City, which had 2.06 million in 99' (0.1 more than SFStL), and they're in the middle of no where. Branson is the only real destination, and it is a lot smaller than KC. They have some GREAT rides, and a new B&M on the way. They know how to theme a park, draw people to a park, and take chances. They've increased their attendance .25 million in only 4 years- WoF is pretty much in exactly the same place it was 5 years ago.

Finally, there is the WWoO (Wonderful World of Oz) theme park, which is being proposed to be built in De Soto, KS (45 minutes from WoF). They are projecting over 3 million in attendence yearly at this seasonal resort. If it does get built (they are re-voting in January) then WoF will have to step it up. This park is planning on opeing with 3 coasters- a woodie, inverted, and sit-down.

KC has potential, they just need to get some guts, like they did with Mamba, and built something huge to tap into that potential. I guess we can always hope for something huge, but with things going the way they are now I wouldn't be surprised if we got nothing.

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-Brenton-

I love Goliath, but SROS it is not. People who have ridden both will know what I'm talking about. And Jeff, parks pay for their own rides, as is budgeted by Cedar Fair, this year was the perfect example of that.

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Take a picture, it will last longer... *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 11/29/2000. ***

Okay Dustijn everybody tells me not to sink to your level but my eyes doubled no TRIPLED in size when I read almost MY EXACT words about WOF and SFSL park attendance. This is not the first time and in fact its probably about the 10th time you have borrowed mine or Jeff's words practically word for word off of the UNWOF forum. Its fine if you share the same ideas but maybe try saying them on your own words? THis is not flaming I have a right to protect myself from plagerism.

As for ROI PULLEESEEE....

You keep building cheap less people come. You make less money so you added a cheaper attraction less people come so you add a yet even CHEAPER attraction... THis is not the way to run a park yet its how CF is running W0rlds of Fun and im betting also poor Valleyfair. Thats Return of Investment. The whole business of making money is the willingness to take risks and buddies CF is still stuck is still thinking inside the box.

Mr Putz I know you dont like me, I know you don't like my ideas and I know you don't like my opinions but I am entitled by the first amendement of the constitution to the freedom of speech. Plus ever stop and think that we might just be a teeny tiny bit right? Remember Ive been to Cedar Point but you have never been to Worlds of Fun. So don't condemn and close this post until you have walked a mile in mine, dustijn's, jeff's and all the other WOF enthusiasts mocassins. Ok?

Jennifer Lovesee

First of all Jennifer the only thing that is similiar between the posts is the mention on ROI and the attendance. I found those attendances on Screamscape. But as you said I won't "stoop to my level". Nevermind this though I don't want to flame either.

And as for the rest of your post Jenn, all I can say is Amen.

Dustijn


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Scorching the Competition in 2001
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Simcoaster says: "And Jeff, parks pay for their own rides, as is budgeted by Cedar Fair, this year was the perfect example of that."

Isn't that what I said?

Jennifer Lovesee says: "Mr Putz I know you dont like me, I know you don't like my ideas and I know you don't like my opinions but I am entitled by the first amendement of the constitution to the freedom of speech. Plus ever stop and think that we might just be a teeny tiny bit right? Remember Ive been to Cedar Point but you have never been to Worlds of Fun. So don't condemn and close this post until you have walked a mile in mine, dustijn's, jeff's and all the other WOF enthusiasts mocassins. Ok?"

I don't know you, and therefore can't dislike you. It seems that you still don't understand, despite private e-mail messages that I've sent you, that there is a difference between differing opinions and malicious content. Yes, I disagree with you, but that doesn't mean I don't like you. I often disagree with people like RideMan, ShiveringTim and others, and I respect their opinions more than most coaster enthusiast combined. Yet these are the guys I hang with at the parks. We can agree to disagree and let it go. Crazy, huh? Why don't you give it a shot?

The First Amendment has nothing to do with a privately run site. You can say whatever you want, but when you start slandering park executives on my site, you bet I'm going to delete it. What's true or not true is not at issue; I don't want that filth on my site. You are entitled to free speech, but if it violates my TOS, you'll have to do it elsewhere.

If you and the other two or three WoF fans who post here once in a blue moon are really that troubled by what we post here, stop visiting the site, please. Make good on your promise to boycott the site and stop posting, you're only lining my pockets.

Mr. Putz is my Dad... I prefer Jeff, thanks.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

Funny how I predicted when I posted this news item, that it would be reduced to this. And funny how I knew exactly who would be airing out their "issues" (those who Mr. Putz... um... Jeff ;) said post once in a blue moon.)

Obviously, some people just don't understand how the industry works (let alone fundamentals of "Business 101")

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Neil
Pittsburgh, PA *** This post was edited by Seven-of-9 on 11/30/2000. ***

No Jeff, you left out the "as budgeted by Cedar Fair" part. They do have some say over what ride goes into what park. Knott's can't just decided on their own that they want to build Millennium Force becuase Cedar Fair has the money for it. You know darn well that Cedar Point is the first consideration for any excess money.

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Take a picture, it will last longer... *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 11/30/2000. ***

I never said that the individual parks could do as they please. They have a CEO and board of directors to answer to.

I have a friend who worked in sales at CP for awhile, and it's interesting that he recently mentioned how the smaller parks would beg and plead to build big coasters, but couldn't prove how they were going to pay for it.

There's really no such thing as "extra money." If there is, it's added to that $1.83/unit that I get every year as a unit holder. Cedar Point has to prove it will pay for its own rides, they don't get "extra money."

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

And thank u very much I post a lot more than once in a blue moon :p

I just think that everyone has good points, but you really can't understand the park until you are one with the park. I know you all mean well, but still there is some things about MO and WOF that you just won't ever understand.

Dustijn

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Scorching the Competition in 2001
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Simcoaster,IMHO I really think CP gets most of the excess money is do to its overall size.
CP has tons of space to expand and the marketing area(N.Ohio,SE Mich.,E Penn.)to back it up.
Now if they can expand KBF I'm sure they'd pour just as much $$$$$ into it as CP,but realisticly KBF just dosen't have the space.:(

Jeff said: "I have a friend who worked in sales at CP for awhile, and it's interesting that he recently mentioned how the smaller parks would beg and plead to build big coasters, but couldn't prove how they were going to pay for it."

I certainly don't entirely disagree with that, and I'm really trying to stay out of this quarrel. However, consider this:

Someplace over this thread (I don't really feel like looking for it), someone compared WOF to SFStL, and how the latter has gained attendance and such. If Cedar Fair started to put some more money into World's Of Fun for better rides and expansion, wouldn't that bring more people away from Six Flags' attendance to WOF's? Thusly, after two or three years, the investment would have paid for itself. Then, maybe, CF could throw some more money World's way for more rides and whatnot, and the cycle repeats. Just give World's Of Fun a nice chunk of expansion over a period of a few years, let them take away from their competitors and get a solid hold on the local market, and the park grows.

It seems simple, at least.

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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.

Whoa okay now who's flaming? This depresses me. You never see us picketing cedar fair do we? No we go out and have a good time how many groups can say that? Not many. We have good natured arguments about Worlds of Fun, we don't like our lot in life and we like to argue, sometimes that can be a good thing. I adresses Jeff as Mr Putz as an honorary title, I was taught to pay respect to people when I wanted to address them as a comrade... I address many of my members in the same fashion and am never retorted. For the past three years as a webmaster and then as a president my main goal was the respect everybody, now im human and am not perfect. Sometimes like everybody I will go on my band box and sometimes I will go absolutly nuts hey Im an artist what can you expect? :) I apologize but in all I believe I do the best I can. I once thought of you Jeff as a comrade the Guide and UNWOF are about the only two really good unofficial park websites out there and Ive been around.... What am I trying to say? Nothing just wishing you guys would give WOFFA a chance, just wish you would stop and listen to our maybe once sided but a little bit truthful arguments. I will say it once and I will say it again and again we are not a two bit park, and a lot of people in the industry will agree that our park has the ability to become more then it has been left to become. There is no flaming in that there is just one side of the coin, just like this presidential election we are going through.... Also for all of those who disdain WOFFA you have only heard from two very vocal members who have at times not gotten along very well. However, if you are going to make judgments about it please get to know the other 92 members before you make rash decisions.... and thats all I have to say about that.

Peace Love and Happiness

Jennifer Lovesee

True very true. I will have to admit that Jenn and I are probably the two most vocal members of WOFFA. I think one of the main reasons that we tend to fight is the fact that we are from rival universities. Truman State and Northwest Missouri have never been buddy buddies. There is also a lot of other things that have occured that do not tend to this thread and shall remain unsaid. The case in point here is that it almost seems like Christ in his final days. You want to crucify WOF. WOF has done nothing to any of you guys yet you are repeatedly running down the park. Now Missy you have the nerve to run down one of the finest organizations devoted to a single park. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Do you know any of us? Do you have ANY facts to back up your claim? This is not tended to be a flame, but I think you have a lot of nerve to attack WOFFA like that. It is a sorry shame that this thread is ending the way it is. If only you people could open your eyes for once and realize that the world does not revolve around the East Coast. Oh never mind, I'll have better luck talking to a wall.

Really I just don't what to say anymore. It seems that you are all set in your ways and no matter what anyone says WOF is a piece of crap park that doesn't deserve anything. Just remember every park was exactly in it's shoes at one time or another.



Dustijn


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Scorching the Competition in 2001
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Dirtyvern I totally agree with you. You made my original point. Wrong or right, Cedar Point is considered first, and in 2002 when they're due for another coaster, you best believe they will get first dibs at any available money, excess or not. I wasn't making any judgements, just stating the truth. And Missy, I see you still haven't learned how to discuss things without insulting people.

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Take a picture, it will last longer... *** This post was edited by Simcoaster on 11/30/2000. ***

Oh my Missy can be nice "I really hope Worlds of Fun gets the good end of the stick one of theses years." from another thread dealing wih WOF.

Dustijn *who wonders how much longer this thread will be open* Hollon

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Not much longer, and even if it is I won't be here. I don't even know why I complained in the first place. I set the tone for this madness. Knott's has Ghostrider, and that's good enough for me! Time to move on folks...

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Take a picture, it will last longer...