Cedar Fair finalizes 2001 expenditures

Looks like you were right Jeff. Knott's will have to wait until 2002 for a big coaster. Unfortunately, that hits right smack dab in the middle of what will probably be Cedar Point's next monster coaster, leaving the other CF parks shortchanged once again...
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Take a picture, it will last longer...

Like I've said before, it has nothing to do with parks getting short changed. To get a ride a park has to pay for a ride. The parks don't fund each other's improvements. If CP can't pay for a ride its self, it doesn't build. Same goes for the rest of the parks.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

If you ask me, it looks like Worlds of Fun and Valleyfair are taking this year off in hopes of something big next year. There is nothing to worry about, everyone will get their next thrilling attraction is the near future.

Those improvements that Kinzel's talking about for Valleyfair could very well be some retracking work, or even just new paint for High Roller. Either one would be awesome to have.

I'm guessing that Valleyfair won't get anything big until 2003

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Randy Hutchinson
You build it, I'll ride it

Missy said "If you ask me, it looks like Worlds of Fun and Valleyfair are taking this year off in hopes of something big next year."

While this may be true for Valleyfair, WoF has "taken a year off" for the last 2 years, and this will make three. The last real thing they added was Mamba.

1998 - Mamba
1999 - NOTHING (upcharge hand-me-downs don't count)
2000 - Boomerang (which is still nothing)
2001 - Camp Snoopy (still nothing)

I'm so tired of CF:LP be so obsessed with the ROI (return of investment). This obsession has made the park across the state (SFStL) attendance increase to over 2mil. SFStL used to not even get close to 1mil, and now look. WOF used to constantly get 1mil every year under Hunt Midwest. The main problem that lead us to a decline of attendance is that we don't add new rides every year. When they added Mamba in '98, we had a record year, but then CF:LP made the mistake of not adding a flat ride in '99 to keep the attendance up. Then in 2000 they thought that putting in a Boomerang would DRAW PEOPLE IN. There was already that type of ride across the state, and yes people in MO do travel to other parks. We are not like other states where the GP only goes to the local park. Oh well maybe Phil Bender can turn this park around before it sinks like the Titanic.

*steps off his soap box*
Dustijn


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Scorching the Competition in 2001
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One thing I am slightly unsure of... besides the much improved campground at Cedar Point, what else is going to be new there? Are there going to be any ride improvements? Upgrades? Landscaping? Although we know there will be no rides, that's understandable after a big year... I just hope something noticable is new at the park itself, not just the campground.

My home park is Dorney Park, and I do have sympathy for the coaster enthusiasts who consider VF and WoF their home parks. However, you need to realize that LOCATION is very important. Why should CF build a B&M in Kansas City, if they won't get the draw to pay it off? But I will say that Dorney is 'blossoming' under Cedar Fair unlike WOF and VF.
1997- Steel Force,
1998- Hang Time (huss top-spin) Coasters Diner, Water works, Thunder Creek Speedway
1999- Dominator
2000- Camp Snoopy, Wild Mouse, Skyscraper, New midways etc.

I'm glad that you get that, Andy. Dorney is close enough to be considered East Coast from a population standpoint, and I'd guess that their biggest draw can be from the same crowd who goes to SFGAdv.

Dustijn, I don't understand why you still can't see the big picture. Keep in mind that the reason that Cedar Fair bought WoF in the first place was because it was in trouble and needed bailing out. All the attendance in the world doesn't help if the money is poorly spent. There will never be a park the size of Cedar Point, Magic Mountain or Six Flags Great America in that area because the population can't support it. It's economics, not a conspiracy intended to irritate you.

If anything, the 2000 and 2001 improvements solidify their position as a family park with diverse attractions. I remember when they announced Cedar Point's Camp Snoopy... the enthusiasts went nuts with complaints. You know what though, families buy more admissions, buy more food and need more diverse attractions. It makes sense, and the smiles you get from the kids make a world of difference in guest satisfaction.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

No the main complaint that I have here is that they just redid the kiddie area 3 years ago. I think that it's a waste of money to redo it AGAIN, I thought it was a waste the first time they did it actually. And as for the park in finacial problems under Hunt, that's untrue. There was actually plans to build a racing woodie for the 1996 season. These however were trashed by CF:LP who thought that it was just too expensive for a little park like WOF. ALSO, there would still be some important landmarks that were at the park that CF:LP ripped out, but that's another post. Yes I do love CF:LP but sometimes I almost wish that WOF was a SF park, cause atleast they get rides.

Oh and about the area to pull from, remember that KC is one of the 10 largest cities in the US, and that there is 6 states to draw from for attendance. The fact that park has seen no real investments in the last three years is bound to catch up with them. I believe the main reason why WOF is in the state it is now is because of poor management, I will not name names, but the person who I'm reffering to cut too many corners to save money. maybe this was to make him look good to the uppers, but this corner cutting is going to catch up with the park. hopefully nothing drastic will result from it.

GOD HELP CF:LP

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Scorching the Competition in 2001
---------------------------------- *** This post was edited by Dustijn Hollon on 11/29/2000. ***

Dustjin... He is helping Cedar Fair. When you look at the amount of money that Six Flags is pumping out, you have to wonder what will happen in an economic downturn which is coming. All economic indicators are pointing to such a turn in the next year. Cedar Fair is being responsible not only to it's investors, but to the safety and service to it's patrons. Parks that gear to a family survive economic downturns quite well, where teen to adult focus parks tend to suffer. When economic downturns occur, all parks suffer, but the ones with the most cash on hand are able to keep up their parks better than those like Six Flags. The early 90's was a perfect example of this. Knott's had problems, but at least they were able to add new attractions, improve facilities and keep the park clean. In contrast, Magic Mountain had to reduce staff, hours and that particular park ran into numerous safety problems, maintenance problems and quality of service.

Any and all amusement parks have a dual track obligation (no pun intended) to be financially responsible to their shareholders, and a quality of service responsibility to their guests. *** This post was edited by Skyboss01 on 11/29/2000. ***

Dustjin I have to take issue with two things you said:

1] a Boomerang is not "nothing." Sure its not exciting to us enthusiasts who have ridden 100's of them but there was nothing like it in the area and to the average park goer its a big deal!
I see it this way: the Boomerang is an inexpensive way to add a new attraction and get more people to the park and isn't that the ultimate goal??

2] unless a ton of people have moved to the KCMO area it is NOT one of the top ten cities in population in the US. When I was in Denver working for a record company KCMO was one of my markets and it was ranked #26, right under Denver [market #25]. That KC market included surrounding suburban areas in Kansas and Missouri.

Matthew

Upadating the kiddie areas is one of the most important thing that a park can do every few years. if this improvement to the park can get at 1 child to come to the park, that kid also brings one or 2 parents, and hopefully that child's older siblings. Marketing to kids is where it's at.

Arbitron actually puts KC as market #30 now. Compare that to the other parks that sit in the middle of several top-30 markets. Knott's is ground zero in the massive SoCal markets while Cedar Point sits between Detroit (#7), Cleveland (#24), Akron (#68), Columbus (#34), etc. That's why those two parks can draw 3 million people every year and get a quick ROI.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

Now for my 2 cents. Jeff is totally correct in saying it's the GP, not the enthusiasts that pay the bills(words to that effect). All most of us do is whine and complain about everything. Just read comments everytime that a new coaster is announced. You ALWAYS see some negetive comments no matter what. As for SF putting new rides in thier parks Dustijn I have to disagree. SFDL is I would have to say my home park so I know it well. SF has made IMPROVEMENTS and I say IMPROVEMENTS because I believe anything a company does to thier park in an effort to make thier guests expierience more pleasureable is an IMPROVEMENT. These improvements do not always mean more rides however. While SF has spent alot of money on DL we have only gotten S:ROS and the twister out of it(the 2 I'm interested in anyway) while actually losing a ride(Nightmare is gone). So no Dustijn not all SF parks get rides, some actually lose them. Further more there are parks out there that will never be more than they are right now because to say it again THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE IN THAT AREA. Other parks will always grow because of where they are(I think we all know where those parks are). Accept what you have and enjoy it because no matter what you have it's better than nothing at all.

Dustijn - OK boomerangs aren't very good, but there is not anything like it across the state like you said. SfStl does not have anyhting like it. Also, Premier Parks does not release attendance figures so where did you come up with the 2 million. I'm sure it's closer to the 1 million mark.

Dustijn, check out the Cedarfair website sometime. There is a section which discusses the history of each of their parks.
Cedar Point has a 'draw' of 22 million guests. Knotts Berry has a 'draw' of 20 million guests. Cedar Fair's biggest 'draw' is Dorney Park with a draw of 35 million guests. It is only 90 minutes from NYC and less than that from Philly, the 1st and 5th largest cities in the US. Valleyfair has 8 million while Worlds of Fun, apparently with KC being the 10th largest city in the US with a measly draw of 7 million.

Cedar Fair is a business, they are not going to build a huge expensive attraction at a park where they couldn't make enough profits to cover the cost. However, CF will make wise decisions and build slightly lesser pricey attractions, which are just as good. On a personal note, I doubt VF or WOF will ever have a B&M. But they will continue to construct attractions which will benefit the park in the long run.

I am a coaster enthusiast, however, I think you can never update a 'kiddie' section enough in a park. While walking through Camp Snoopy at Dorney, there is a 'aura' which is very charming. There's the peanuts music playing, and then there's the characters. If a commercial is seen on TV by children, they will coerce their parents into taking them. Families spend more money than teenagers do. I almost don't want to type this, it seems to simple to comprehend, it's common sense :)

Long Live Cedar Fair
ATR7288@aol.com

If only knott's could get that darn water ride to work, and get rid of that eye sore sitting next to Supreme Scream...

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Take a picture, it will last longer...

I agree w/ Phil about the six flags parks. SFDL is also what i consider my home park and it's about time they got another new ride consideing how much money has been put into it. AND, when six flags does give parks new rides half of the time they end up being a clone of a ride already built. Sometimes i see it as a good thing, but when you put a "superman: ride of steel" at six flags new england, six flags america and six flags darien lake it seems a bit rediculous seeing that they are all fairly close to one another. On the other hand maybe if they put one at sfdl, sfmw and sfft then that would probably be a different story . and where did djustin go?

Well for some weird reason I couldn't post on this thread for awhile, but now I can so

HERE'S THE MOMENT YOU'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!

I will take back my statement on the ranking of KC in total pop. I did some checking and yes I will concede that I was wrong, now on to the reader's comments

skyboss said Any and all amusement parks have a dual track obligation to be finacially responsible to their shareholders, and a quality of service responsiblity to their guests. Yes I do agree with you to a point, but IMHO there was some service and safery cut during the Keller administration. I fully believe that the Orient Express accident is in direct correlation with this. AND I certainly hope that this will be better addressed during the Bender adminstration.

Mamoosh said "A Boomerang is not nothing. Sure it's not exciting to us....average park goer its a big deal!" Actually it is was a big deal because we finally crossed the 4 coaster barrier that had been at the park forever. But lets also think here. Mr. Freeze while not exactly the same has the same concept as Boomerang. I never did once stand in line for Boomerang without hearing someone mention Mr. Freeze and how much better it was because it was launched not reverse inclined. Also at $3mill you can get a decent sized CCI, a wild mouse (a family coaster which WOF really needs). Yet they opted for the Boomerang. You know why right? They were originally going to get a mouse but changed to the Boomerang when Orient went down. That left them with two major coasters. AND Timber Wolf was down quite a bit in the end of the season.
Otherwise we would have a mouse now.


phil say as for SF putting new rides in their parks Dustijn I have to disagree. It was a general statement, and I did not mean EVERY SF park, just the ones that are near by. ex. SFSTL


mike me said Premier Parks do not release attendance figures so where did you come up with the 2 million. I'm sure it's closer to the 1 million mark.
In the last five years 99-95
SFSTL 2.05 1.55 1.75 1.8 2.0 in millions
WOF 1.0 1.2 1.1 .8 1


Andy said I doubt VF or WOF will ever have a B&M. But they will continue to construct attractions which will benefit the park in the long run. and remember we never thought WOF would have Mamba either.

he also said I think you can never update a 'kiddie' section enough in a park. I just think that it was a waste to build BBC only to tear it out and build CS. We were supposed to get a CCI this year, but the plans were pulled after a slump in attendance.

I don't mean to sound like a hard butt and yes you made some good points, but you have to see where I'm coming from. Maybe if you guys lived closer to park you'd see my points.

DOWN WITH ROI!


-----------WILDFIRE--------------
Scorching the Competition in 2001
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*** This post was edited by Dustijn Hollon on 11/29/2000. ***