Cedar Fair and Six Flags merger to complete July 1, mostly Cedar Fair executives to lead new company

With the merger maybe there will be one less season pass, no longer breathing equine to hit. Though sure this place will find other deceased colts to flog. LOL

It's not even for one summer. It's $99 for 1.5 seasons - early August 2024 through early November 2025. Including Cedar Point, Cedar Point Shores and parking - and discounts all throughout the park.

As Jeff alluded to, it's tough to find high quality entertainment for a night for $99 and Tim Fisher and Richard Zimmerman believe the quality of the experience they provide is worth $99 for two parks and 15 months.

As Selim Bassoul would say, not a way to level up your customer base from Wal-Mart to Target.

You don’t achieve cost synergies for $99. Whatever those might be. Buzzwords are so stupid.

This would all be very interesting, except that (a) the price of next year's pass has been $99 in the late summer and (b) has included the rest of the current season for several years now. None of that has anything to do with the merger and none of it explains per capita trends this year vs. last.

The all parks option has not gone up with the merger, and I think may actually have gone down. What that tells me is that management believes it's an upsell that most people won't get full use out of. Seeing as how management actually has the admissions data, they might be right about that.

I'm an enthusiast. I used my all-parks option this year for two days at CGA, total. I might get a third in, but probably not. I bought it because it was a few bucks more than two single day tickets, and so Cedar Flags wins with me.

If they are winning with me---an enthusiast!---they are probably winning more often than not.

Where I think they have dropped the ball a little bit is in not increasing the price of the base pass a few dollars each year. Leaving it at $99 is a little surprising, so I am guessing they believe that a three-digits price tag is an emotional break point for enough people not to warrant it.

I agree with that. And have said in various conversations about pass pricing that management has the data involved in the pricing decision. And that enthusiasts tend to view everyone as visiting parks like enthusiasts do.

When I checked the link to the Canada coaster, I saw that they are tossing in 5 single use FastLane passes with a season pass ($105 for the full year -- not sure if that is Canadian dollars). If you are renewing, you get 5 single use FLs and a bring a friend ticket. I paid $50 for 2 single use FLs at Cedar Point this past weekend for my daughter. Different parks and not sure what single use tickets cost at Canada park.

https://www.canadaswonderla...son-passes

Here's another question: How many Year N+1 passes are bought in Year N, but never used?

I can tell you that for 2024 passes bought in 2023, the answer is: at least one.

I've seen more of the reverse: A non-trivial amount of visitors intending to visit once in the fall see the messaging about cheap season pass pricing for next year, subsequently get the pass for their fall visit, and then fail to visit in the +1 season.

For some people, passes can be more aspirational than reality. I definitely have had passes over the past 25 years where the number of visits did not make the pass worth it from dollars/cents perspective. Would have been better buying single day tickets/stepping down a pass level.

Back in the day, and I mean way back in the day (meaning 2002ish) I recall the ol' Platinum Pass being somewhere in the neighborhood of $165. That got you access to all the Cedar Fair parks, parking, and a little discount at shops, etc. We mainly got it because we lived in Columbus, and it was fun bouncing back between Cedar Point and Kings Island all summer.

It's 2024, and if you get a gold pass + all parks add-on, that's only $184.

And I remember thinking the Platinum Pass was surprisingly cheap back in 2002. Ish.

Consider that in inflation adjusted numbers. Your 2002 pass would be $287 today. And that $99 is obviously arbitrary and an emotional round number, but if your expenses are constant in adjusted numbers, anything less than $103 this year means you're actually making less.

GoBucks89:

I saw that they are tossing in 5 single use FastLane passes with a season pass

This is even more strange. The add-on revenue that you hope to score you now give away?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of those pricing strategy meetings.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve done years where my all park pass was used sparingly, such that visits were $30-$40 a day but it’s crazy to think 4 visits gets me there now. I’ve nearly abused my pass this year, by the end of the year I’ll do 20 days across 7 parks (4 theme, 3 water parks.) Although I know I’m an outlier. That said Cedar Fair is getting less per day from me then Dollywood, SDC, United Parks, Universal or Disneyland, especially when you factor in food (that meal deal is very under priced.) You think they would increase their rates, maybe they are going to do so slowly to lessen the pain.

Cedar Fair isn't just looking at you. Or even just at people like you. They are looking at all of their customers. Not all in the same situation. You may be able to get more from some people with higher prices but fewer people buy. And on an overall basis, you can worse off with the higher prices. And again, there is a tendency for people to think everyone else acts like they do.

As we have discussed, the parks have the data. Across the chain (and to a lesser degree in the industry) in terms of impacts on pricing of everything. And nothing about their pricing decisions requires a PhD in Economics. But it can be counterintuitive which data will show. In the counterintuitive situations, those without the data think you are getting it wrong.

Everyone in the world has access to data, and it doesn't stop them from making poor decisions or believing that vaccinations are worse than the diseases. It has nothing to do with enthusiast views. There's a price/volume curve, and the best place on that curve is where price * volume results in the highest possible number. There's no universe where Tay Tay can sell 100k tickets to teens and their moms at hundreds of dollars each and an amusement park can't sell a pass for more than $99.

The price also sets a perception. For someone who knows little to nothing about these parks or has never been, I'm sure it has happened more than once where they see the price, and say something to the effect of, "wow, that's really cheap, that park probably isn't very good."

I also think that if there's a change in philosophy in the next few years and they opt to stop undervaluing the product the public perception will turn into "CORPORATE GREED NICKEL AND DIME WHAT ABOUT THE FAMILIES OMG!!!111" even more than it already is.

I always laugh when a park like Cedar Point makes a very generic post advertising tickets or an event and all of the comments turn to "I remember when Cedar Point was affordable and now it's just greed" even though it's cheaper than ever to go.

BrettV:

I always laugh when a park like Cedar Point makes a very generic post advertising tickets or an event and all of the comments turn to "I remember when Cedar Point was affordable and now it's just greed" even though it's cheaper than ever to go.

I think you have touched on something very important.

Cedar Point is unique in the company given it’s located basically in the middle of nowhere, season pass holders have to make an effort to get there which is an expense in itself. That said, I still believe a pass to the Point should be no less than $149 since they include parking and water park.

The other parks in the company are based in major cities leading to the issue of cheap passes equals babysitting service which has lead to so many security issues reported in the news that scares families away. Sure they have chaperone policies now but after so many years of horror stories at the parks the perception is baked in. You gotta break that perception, continuing to offer passes at cheap prices doesn’t help.

Jeff:

Everyone in the world has access to data

There is a difference between "I can read the literature on vaccination but choose to ignore it" and "I know exactly how many times each passholder enters the park, and can use that data to set my prices accordingly."

To be clear, I do think they could at least be nudging prices up each year by 3-5%. But, they disagree with me. They definitely know things I don't know, and it is possible that that knowledge is informing a sound decision. Or not. Either way, I'm reminded of the famous Jim Mora rant: "You think you know, but you don't know. And you never will."

OK, poor analogy, but I think you knew that I meant having information doesn't mean you make good decisions with it. SF/CF has made a choice to race itself to the bottom. Holiday World charges $165 for their no-Saturday pass, $200 for no blackout, $235 for greater food and merch discounts. It's one park in the middle of nowhere. Does management think Cedar Point is worth less?