Cedar fair acquisition of paramount parks complete.

Saturday, July 1, 2006 1:18 AM
So you're saying that if they add orange seatbelts and longer signs to the entrance of the rides, they're going to ruin the parks and your visit?
Saturday, July 1, 2006 9:05 AM
Don't count on former charm to return for a couple of reasons.

For one thing, you're seeing parks through older eyes. Over time people tend to forget the negative and accentuate the positive, and that's how we remember parks from when we were younger, and had less to compare them to.

Secondly, a lot of charm had to do with consistency of theming which almost no one tries to stick with any more. Don't count on any rides being removed or rethemed to turn the clock back.

Third, landscaping has a lot to do with it, and trees grow. Look at photos of KI or KD when they were newer and you see a lot of topiary-like trees. Now those trees are big and shady, and they've changed the sight lines. Even if flower beds are kept the same, the view from any given point is different as the trees get bigger. Is that necessarily bad? Not if you like to sit in the shade.

(Based on how Dick Kinzel referred to the parks in the press release, I guess we can now all safely drop the P from their initials.)

Saturday, July 1, 2006 9:22 AM
Cedar Fair, like Six Flags, tends to focus on the coaster to improve parks. After SOB Kings Island focused more on themed rides and family attractions, something Cedar Fair has never been all that comfortable doing. As Cedar Fair aquires more parks, I wonder if they'll become more flexible in their attraction approach?

Six Flags has proven the pitfalls in a one peg fits all parks approach to expansion. Cedar Point is unique in that more coasters has not discouraged attendance. But different parks have different needs and expanding attractions can't always be about the coasters. Other than the water park, Dorney's expansions has all been about the coasters. Does Cedar Fair know how to balance out their attractions? Will Cedar Fair keep the families coming to parks like Kings Island or other parks in general? How is Cedar Fair avoiding the same pitfalls that caught Six Flags?

Saturday, July 1, 2006 10:28 AM
Did anyone check out the Cedar Fair website. All the Paramount parks have been added to the map. Sry if this is old news. I just noticed it so I figured I'd point it out.
The Only Thing Worst Then Dieing, Is Living And Having Nothing Worth Dieing For.
Saturday, July 1, 2006 10:28 AM
Um...yeah because GL and MiA have been just spoiled with coasters since the Cedar Fair purchases.

Cedar Fair gets a bad rap, some of it deserved, and some of it just seems to be made up.

Saturday, July 1, 2006 10:59 AM

rc-madness said:
Other than the water park, Dorney's expansions has all been about the coasters. Does Cedar Fair know how to balance out their attractions?

How so? 12 Flats/Non-coasters in 14 years, three major coasters (and a Wild Mouse) in 14 years.

The last major park expansion was the space between Dorney and Wildwater Kingdom, and the first attraction in that space was the Cedar Creek Cannonball. Talon was installed at the END of that expansion!

While it's sad to see the nostalgia being pulled out of the park, I also realize it's a park's job to decide when it's time to remove 80+ year old buildings, fire traps, and tight/narrow midways that to me are childhood memories. Have they gone a little to far? Yes.

I know Cedar Fair has a vision for Dorney, and I believe they are doing a BETTER job than ANYBODY else who COULD have purchased Dorney, screwed it up, went bankrupt, and turned it into another housing development.

Great Adventure and Hershey would have eaten Dorney alive without Cedar Fair.
Just my 2-cents.


Saturday, July 1, 2006 11:35 AM
Jeff's avatar DWeaver is right, and it further illustrates my point... you see what you want to see.

Michael Darling said:
Jeff- I see orange seat belts, white concrete, and legaleese signs. Those don't happen to be things I "want to see."
So let's go with blue belts, dirt paths and signs that say, "I love you Gilman!" Will that make you happy?

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

Saturday, July 1, 2006 2:20 PM
That's a great idea. I'm so glad you're finally starting to realize that it really is all about me.
Sunday, July 2, 2006 12:29 PM
crazy horse's avatar I think what he is trying to say is that cedar fair parks are kind of sterile(sp) looking.

There is no theming, not much landscaping, and no eye candy/ decorations. However, there are some great coasters.

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.
Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.
I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Sunday, July 2, 2006 12:48 PM
Not much landscaping? ok.. thats why Cedar Point's site has a whole section devoted to it, as well as Dorney. They (especially Cedar point) seem to put alot of work into their landscaping and what not. It's somewhat "sterile" I guess, but it's very neat and clean looking.


Not to mention how much improvement Ive seen just in pictures of MiAdv. *** Edited 7/2/2006 4:54:59 PM UTC by P18***

Sunday, July 2, 2006 2:24 PM
Cedar Fair takes the charm out of parks?

What does that even mean?

I doubt that anywhere at CF will you find an employee or department dedicated to "charm". The job of the company is to make sure the experience at the park is best possible for the highest amount of people. This might mean removing a historic flat ride that nobody goes on anymore to put in a new roller coaster, and while the park could lose a little "charm" it could gain a ton of visitors who want to go on the new ride. So if Cedar Fair, Paramount, and SF all take the charm out of parks, exactly which company keeps it in?

Sunday, July 2, 2006 3:08 PM
Well since CF parks aren't necessarily "theme parks" in the sense that SF & the former paramount paarks are/were they can perhaps restore a more neutral feel to their new properties that they've recently aqquired from the paramount chain.

Have the paramount parks been added to the pointbuzz forums yet?

Sunday, July 2, 2006 7:40 PM
Why would they be? The only other Cedar Fair park that has a forum of its own its Geauga Lake, and that's probably simply because of its close proximity to CP.

It's "Point"Buzz, not Fairbuzz ;)

Sunday, July 2, 2006 8:26 PM
^Well I just thought it might be a good idea that's all,then again I double checked & noticed that VF,WOF,KBF & Dorney weren't on there as well.
Friday, July 7, 2006 7:14 PM
crazy horse's avatar Did anyone go to pki this week and notice any changes?

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.
Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.
I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Friday, July 7, 2006 7:24 PM
matt.'s avatar

CPrulezohio said:
So if Cedar Fair, Paramount, and SF all take the charm out of parks, exactly which company keeps it in?

Busch and Disney.

Disney could be somewhat arguable but only because they're usually held to a higher standard. SF parks that would certainly qualify would be SFOG, SFNE, SFGAdv (or at least half of the park), SFGAm, SFOT, SFFT, TGE, and perhaps a handful of others depending on your taste and what exactly you consider "charm."

That being said, 75% of Dorney looks completely awful. I don't care what the argument is, it's an ugly, ugly park, and one of the big reasons I don't really care to go back anytime soon. Didn't like my time being there, and there's only one other park I've *ever* visited that I would really consider in that league.

I'm fine with whoever thinks that "charm" is made up or whatever. Its a subjective opinion, we get to still have those, right? *** Edited 7/7/2006 11:28:48 PM UTC by matt.***

Saturday, July 8, 2006 1:49 AM
rollergator's avatar I disagree *completely* that Paramount took the charm out of their parks. SF varied (er, varies) SO widely it really MUST be taken case-by-case. MY take is that the parks with more "charm" (landscaping, theming, friendliness) are the best-functioning AND have the most contented employees AND guests, have better "reputations"....and they likely show higher profit margins as well. MARGINS....percentage basis.

Busch and Disney are the best examples, but it's understandable to me that any of the bigger "chains" would have trouble reaching THOSE standards...

Oh, KennyCorp, and Herschend...charming.... :)
*** Edited 7/8/2006 5:50:06 AM UTC by rollergator***

Saturday, July 8, 2006 2:39 PM
So does this mean the Paramount Parks will lose the Paramount name and simply go back to their original names like Kings Island?

I did read that the parks would keep their license for the Nick properties such as Nick Universe. However what about rides such as Top Gun and Tomb Raider? Will they be able to keep the name and theming or would that change?

Saturday, July 8, 2006 3:17 PM
matt.'s avatar

rollergator said:
I disagree *completely* that Paramount took the charm out of their parks.

I think PKI is the guiltiest of parks in the chain but then again - PKI is also the flagship and has evolved much more rapidly than most other parks in the chain. And even then, it isn't really that bad. Rivertown wasn't ruined by Tomb Raider like I thought it could have been (still would rather have the log flume) and Action Zone pretty much blows compared to what was once there. What I *don't* want to see is the entire park turning into a Action Zone which the Italian Job has kinda hinted at. Hoping its just a one time thing, *not* a trend.

Still a gorgeous park, though, and having grown up going to KI, still close to my heart. Hence, I get to be more critical. ;)

Saturday, July 8, 2006 3:32 PM
^AFAIK they'll keep the movie theming,at least for the remainder of the season but after that it's anybody's guess.I'd hope that they'll drop the paramount prefix soon & just go back to using the regular names,looking at CF's park listings map they seem to have the new parks listed without the paramount prefix however.

With 2007 capex being pretty much finalized it is safe to assume that CF will follow through with any plans previously made by paramount parks prior to the acquisition so perhaps we could begin speculating on what plans CF may have for their new parks for the 2008 season?


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