Can or Would Arrow Do It?

Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:03 AM
A lot of people complain on how rough, in general, an Arrow coaster is... whether be looping or hyper. (Arrow probably knows it as well!)

My question is... with the debut of the Hypersonic XLC coaster & it's new high-tech train & wheel design, could Arrow adopt a similar train where as the top wheels are made of a more solid, but soft rubber wheel so as the trains will glide along the track with extreme smoothness?

The tires don't have to be air filled, just a solid rubber to absorb some of the track's rough features.

Do you think this idea is humanly possible?
If so... would Arrow consider to go about such a plan?
Do you think this would bring new life to an aging coaster?
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Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:30 AM
possibly
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Thursday, March 29, 2001 1:44 PM
What I am curious to find out is how much wear-and-tear these wheels can take. At a speed of 80 mph, rubber could get pretty hot.

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Thursday, March 29, 2001 1:56 PM
The wheels on H:XLC are much larger than standard wheels, and as you mentioned, are air filled. More like standard tires for a car. (Which, Josh, I would assume could go for extended periods at 80MPH. My car's tires do...)

Arrow may be able to develop some new style of train to fit them, but couldn't retrofit any current coaster this way. Rubber of this type, directly on metal would shear off immediately. Smaller wheels = faster rotation = more heat = more stress failure.

Nice idea, though.

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Thursday, March 29, 2001 2:01 PM
Good point about the car, kpjb, but how often do you go from 0-80 in 1.8 seconds (I just LOVE saying that!) in a car? It's sorta like drag racing at a stoplight. You usually leave a lotta rubber on the road. Still, with today's composite materials and such, I'm sure they've already thought of stuff like this a long time ago.

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Thursday, March 29, 2001 2:15 PM
But when you drag, the torque comes from the wheels...hence the burned rubber. I must say though, that having smaller, airless wheels would probably have problems with wear and tear. It would probably be easier for the rolling stock designers to come up with some sort of suspension for each wheel assembly...kinda like mountain bike suspension...but heavier dutier...;)

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Decisions determine destiny; Destiny determines decisions. *** This post was edited by janfrederick on 3/29/2001. ***
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Thursday, March 29, 2001 2:18 PM
Another key element of their coasters that they need to fix is their horsecollars. They just need to make them softer and/ or add some padding.

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Thursday, March 29, 2001 2:39 PM
Now I never rode Stealth, so I can't judge how it'd work... BUT

If Arrow would use those comfortable harnesses where it does go over the shoulders & it's flimsy like Stealth's, I think that could be a really decent next-gen design.

The thing I can't calculate is if those would feel comfortable in loops, corkscrews, bowties, boomerangs, & cut-back inversions with 4+ vertical G's and 2+ lateral G's...

Might/Might not be a smooth transition. Maybe those types of harnesses were only made for a flying type coaster...

Can anyone who rode Stealh testify to that???
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Thursday, March 29, 2001 2:42 PM
Although the Stealth harnesses could be better that OTSRs for normal coasters, I thought they were rather uncomfortable when I was hanging from them. Yah...they'd be better.

But I'd still like to see a little suspension. Actually, do the trains already have some type of suspension or is it solid?

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Decisions determine destiny; Destiny determines decisions.
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Thursday, March 29, 2001 3:37 PM
i bet ta2k's have such big wheels to keep the wheels from burning up on the track. the bigger the wheel the less rpm's the longer the tire will last.
does anyone know if im right?
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Friday, March 30, 2001 5:44 AM
The roughness of some Arrow coasters has nothing to do with the track or wheels themselves, but rather the loose tolerance between track and wheels. Since the wheels aren't always touching the wheels, the train tends to bounce around in the track in turns and transitions.

Compare to B&M or Intamin, where the wheels make solid contact with the track on all sides at all times. When the train encounters a turn, there is no "bump" because the wheels are already making contact.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Friday, March 30, 2001 11:05 AM

Jeff said:
"The roughness of some Arrow coasters has nothing to do with the track or wheels themselves, but rather the loose tolerance between track and wheels. Since the wheels aren't always touching the wheels, the train tends to bounce around in the track in turns and transitions.

Compare to B&M or Intamin, where the wheels make solid contact with the track on all sides at all times. When the train encounters a turn, there is no "bump" because the wheels are already making contact.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com"



Exactly. Combine that with some shoody track design, and that is where the roughness comes from.

The problem here is that none of you guys have ridden TT at Dollywood. Arrow has no need to adopt rubber tires, because they are fully able to build rides that are smooth as silk, and still with that same arrow intesity. Arrow is going to once again be the steel builder of choice within the next few years, trust me.


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Don't touch the watch.
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Friday, March 30, 2001 11:21 AM
Not for your general looper, ravenguy98...
Maybe for the 4D Coaster and some other new high-tech designs... but as for the general looping steel coaster, you might as well count on B&M to be the master of the designs, because they may not have started it... but they have basically mastered it.
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Tuesday, April 3, 2001 9:33 AM

Jeff Said:

Compare to B&M or Intamin, where the wheels make solid contact with the track on all sides at all times. When the train encounters a turn, there is no "bump" because the wheels are already making contact.


Actually, although California Screamin' was generally smooth, the loop was a bit on the rough side....I guess the roughness isn't strictly limited to Arrow coasters....


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Decisions determine destiny; Destiny determines decisions. *** This post was edited by janfrederick on 4/3/2001. ***
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Tuesday, April 3, 2001 10:01 AM

ravenguy98 said:
The problem here is that none of you guys have ridden TT at Dollywood. Arrow has no need to adopt rubber tires, because they are fully able to build rides that are smooth as silk, and still with that same arrow intesity. Arrow is going to once again be the steel builder of choice within the next few years, trust me.


And last I checked, TT still uses the same Arrow train design as CP Corkscrew, Steel Phantom, and the Six Flags Triplets (Viper, GASM, Shockwave). Personally, I think most of the problem is in the transitions rather than the trains.

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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com *** This post was edited by ShiveringTim on 4/3/2001. ***
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Tuesday, April 3, 2001 12:22 PM
I with ShiveringTim and Jeff. Going along with Tim, if you ever watch Viper at SFMM come off the first drop it is banked and before the turn is done it is almost banked at zero degrees. Causing you to slam into the shoulder harness. If it was banked all the way until the track was straight it would probably be smoother.

As for the corkscrews I have no clue why you get slammed around at the top of the inversion.
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Tuesday, April 3, 2001 1:36 PM
Another problem with trying to retrofit rubber wheels onto the Arrow loopers is that the rails on Hypersonic are a special I-beam type as opposed to the tubular steel track found on most other coasters. I don't know if the rubber wheels would work on the round rails or not.

I'm surprised that nobody has even mentioned attempting to retrofit some of the Arrow loopers with the lapbars that are now on FoF (BGW, are you listening? Drachen Fire ring a bell?). Everything I've read seems to suggest that OTSR's are unnecessary on most non-inverted loopers. I'd love to see this tried on some of the old Arrow coasters. The Arrow loopers are fun and provide a different (and often more intense) experience than the B&M carpet rides. Riding the Arrow loopers doesn't bother me that much, but the lapbars could help the reride ability and popularize the rides with the general public.

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Adam Rentchler
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Tuesday, April 3, 2001 2:36 PM
Doesnt Hypersonic use aircraft wheels?


All your base are belong to us! *** This post was edited by joey isch on 4/3/2001. ***
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Tuesday, April 3, 2001 2:41 PM
Arrow already has redesigned their shoulder harnesses. The ones on X should be great. Instead of pulling one harness down over your head you "fold" 2 accross your chest.

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"I traded my soul for a ride on Millennium Force"
www.starcoasters.com
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Tuesday, April 3, 2001 3:34 PM

Dawg Byte said:
"... but as for the general looping steel coaster, you might as well count on B&M to be the master of the designs, because they may not have started it... but they have basically mastered it."
I've gotta be straight with you man, Arrow can build coasters on or above B&M caliber. Simply put, too few people have ridden Tennessee Tornado. Arrow's mistake was building its first "next generation" looper at a remote park like Dollywood. If it had been built at a major theme park, things would be a lot different. Another point: Rides like Millennium Force are considered the best in the world. Still, you tend to find people who dislike these rides or nitpick them to death. I haven't seen a single person ever do that to TT. With new innovations like X and the Fish Hook (I say that tounge in cheek) coasters, Arrow is back. I BEG of you not to judge them because of past coasters. Anyway, back to the more specific subject. I agree with The Rentch concerning the pneumatic tires. They just wouldn't work on tubular track. As far as refitting the trains with just lap bars, that won't remove the banging, only the headbanging. Before I get yelled at, I have to add that I like the roughness on these coasters. I don't think anything needs to be done to them at all. Thanks for reading my novel. ;)


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