Brief Cedar Fair and MA rant.

Friday, March 30, 2012 9:49 AM

Timber-Rider, you are a classic case in point. Do you buy a season pass to go to MA? From what I gather you do. (And from their numbers, I gather a lot of people do).

What incentive does the park have to add more stuff or lower their prices if you're already paying and will continue to pay? The only way your argument has any merit at all whatsoever is if you stop going to MA. Then at least your complaint has a little credibility (but if 999,999 people still pay, then you're just SoL).

For instance, SFoT is my home park. We have a bunch of neat new stuff and I pay about $70 to have a season pass. If they took out half the rides and charged $150, it would still be a good value to me. It'd be less of a good value, but I'd still pay it. How do I have any business complaining about anything at that point?

Last edited by ApolloAndy, Friday, March 30, 2012 9:52 AM
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Friday, March 30, 2012 10:55 AM

LostKause said:
I've learned many things from CoasterBuzz over the years, and one of the most significant is supply and demand.

Welcome. Doesn't it feel good to be one of us?

Lord Gonchar said:
Then there's your problem. You're letting what you think get in the way.

These guys are telling you how it is.

Read, read again. One more time.

I'm astounded every time someone brings up gas prices and spouts a hundred frustrations and accusations about why they're high. Here's a hint: It's a global commodity, and global consumption is going up. That's... wait for it... supply and demand.

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Friday, March 30, 2012 11:50 AM

Gas has an added twist on the global commodity issue---it's relatively expensive to ship vs. the underlying cost of the item. So, local refinery capacity matters a lot. But, older refineries are being squeezed by the underlying cost of oil, and cannot make a profit at current gas price levels. So, those refineries close---reducing the supply of gas and raising the price.

Edited to add: there was a good piece in the Times on this, not too long ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/your-money/gasoline-price-dispari...egies.html

Last edited by Brian Noble, Friday, March 30, 2012 11:51 AM
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Friday, March 30, 2012 1:25 PM

The high cost of crude has little to do with the closing of older refineries. The owners don't want to shell out the bucks to upgrade them to meet state and federal air quality standards (they want the government to pay for it). The plants shut down, and the price of the finish product goes up. So does the profits of the major oil companies. Oh, and they want to keep those tax breaks they have been getting, too.

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Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:18 PM

ApolloAndy said:
Timber-Rider, you are a classic case in point. Do you buy a season pass to go to MA? From what I gather you do. (And from their numbers, I gather a lot of people do).

No. The only park I ever purchased a season pass from was Canada's Wonderland in Toronto prior to Cedar Fair's purchase. And, we only went there twice to use it.

However, there was a time when you could purchase a Michigan's Adventure season pass, for $89.00 and also use that pass at Cedar Point. Which was a fantastic deal! since just 3 days at ma at that time cost $66.00 and Cedar Point was $32.00 for a day. So, a whole year access to both parks sounded great to me. And, I was ready to buy that pass. But, alas, Cedar Fair discovered how much money they were losing by allowing Michigan's Adventure pass holders free access to Cedar Point and that pass was nixed, and now you have to get the Platinum pass to all the parks in order to get acces to one, which costs what $159.00?

Shortly after the pass was nixed, they also raised the season pass to Michigan's andventure from $69.00 to $99.00 which was more than what it costs for a six flags pass to Great America! So, no, I do not have a season pass. And, don't want one.

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Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:48 PM

Sounds like quite a bargain to me.

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Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:25 PM

Timber-Rider said:
...now you have to get the Platinum pass to all the parks in order to get acces to one, which costs what $159.00?

Still one of the most ridiculously good entertainment values around, I think.

That's the price of a decent seat at concert/event these days - and those last 2-to-3 hours.

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 7:17 AM

Am I allowed to start 65 different topics, each bitching about timber rider's bitching?

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 9:43 AM

CoasterBuzz should ban certain people from being allowed to start topics for a certain amount of time.

On the other hand, it sure is fun to see someone screw up on here so much and not even notice it.

We all probably have some kind of quarrel with something having to do with the theme park industry (mine is front-of-the-line access, of course), but we don't try to twist every topic into complaining about it. Hobbies are supposed to be fun. Complainers are unhappy people. If you find that you are one of these kinds of people, you should understand that complaining isn't going to solve your problems.

If you find that you are unhappy, the best thing that you can do is decide that you WANT to be happy. Wanting to change is the first step. It will take time and effort, a lot of soul searching, and maybe some sacrifices, but in the end, attaining a well-rounded emotional state will be well worth it.

(One may need a doctors help to prescribe medication to help too, but try on your own before you go this method.)

Maybe this link will also help. I read it a while back, and felt like the author must have extracted the thoughts right out of my head while writing it.

The largest part of being happy is gratitude for everything that you do have. Complaining about what you do not have is the exact opposite of this.

I really should just write a how-to-be-happy book.

Last edited by LostKause, Sunday, April 1, 2012 9:44 AM
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Sunday, April 1, 2012 9:52 AM

The first step to being happy is learning how to tie a gay knot and start a gay campfire.

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 11:29 AM

That's really funny that you remember that, and that it's coming from a straight guy. lol

I don't usually rant about happiness, but I thought that Timber needed it. Instead of making fun, I tried to help in that post.

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 12:47 PM

Yeah. I don't think it'll help, though.

Of course I remember it - it *was pretty funny. :)

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 2:32 PM

Lord Gonchar said:

Timber-Rider said:
...now you have to get the Platinum pass to all the parks in order to get acces to one, which costs what $159.00?

Still one of the most ridiculously good entertainment values around, I think.

That's the price of a decent seat at concert/event these days - and those last 2-to-3 hours.

I agree. Though there are some people who would find the Platinum Pass to be bad value at $100. And still others who would find it to be a good value even at $250.

Its the nature of setting prices. Goal is to maximize profits (ideally over the long term). You will leave some money on the table with some folks and lose other folks with any given pricing strategy. More and more though, they have the ability to personalize pricing squeezing more profit out of everyone.

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 2:43 PM

GoBucks89 said:
I agree. Though there are some people who would find the Platinum Pass to be bad value at $100. And still others who would find it to be a good value even at $250.

Exactly.

Which is why I like to do comparisons like event tickets and such. Personal opinion is not a good gauge of pricing value beyond the...well, personal opinion of whomever is speaking. My mother wouldn't see the value in a season pass at $5 because she'd never use it. She doesn't like rides. It's doesn't mean that a pass at $5 is a bad value - just that it is to her.

Luckily she doesn't come here and tell us all about it every five minutes. ;)

However, what the various forms of entertainment are commanding is a pretty decent way to determine who is in line and who isn't.

Which is kind of the whole point here. Timber-Rider thinks the pricing at MA is way out of line. Based on what all amusement parks, other events, concerts and sports are charging it would seem his gauge of value doesn't jive with the general consensus.

People are paying these kinds of prices across the board for entertainment of all types. The prcing isn't what's out-of-whack here.

And I think that's what everyone is trying to get across to him.

Last edited by Lord Gonchar, Sunday, April 1, 2012 2:44 PM
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Sunday, April 1, 2012 4:48 PM

Who cares, yadda yadda yadda...

Last edited by CoasterDemon, Sunday, April 1, 2012 4:58 PM
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Sunday, April 1, 2012 5:01 PM

Lord Gonchar said:


My mother wouldn't see the value in a season pass at $5 because she'd never use it. She doesn't like rides. It's doesn't mean that a pass at $5 is a bad value - just that it is to her.

This. The comparisons to sporting events and rock concerts always bugged me, because my first thought was, "I don't care if the cheapest seats to Limozeen are $150, because I think *that's* a ripoff too!" The argument seems to be, "Cedar Point is a bargain because it's cheaper than some other ridiculously overpriced piece of entertainment." And when you break it down into hourly figures, it would seem that some people would gladly pay $30/hour to go to an amusement park, because after all, it's still cheaper than a loge at a 4-hour baseball game! (And that magically makes my paycheck higher than the numbers printed on it!!)

That's my gut reaction. But then I remember that the value is all relative, and obviously enough people are willing to pay those prices to keep that venue/show/game/form-of-entertainment going. And since I don't like Limozeen or most sports, those comparisons aren't going to mean squat to me.

I recently dropped $75 to see Memphis from the 4th row, whereas other people you couldn't *pay* to sit through a musical. But I liked the show enough that I was willing to make a space in my budget for it rather than sit up in Balcony C with opera glasses.

Or how about Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams? (based out of Columbus, sold at a few stores around here) $10 for a pint of ice cream. Ten effing dollars. But it's so ridiculously good I'm willing to splurge occasionally.

Then I go to Cedar Point and ask for free Dixie cups of water with my lunch. ;)

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 5:16 PM

The argument seems to be, "Cedar Point is a bargain because it's cheaper than some other ridiculously overpriced piece of entertainment."

Not quite. The argument is: "Entertainment costs money." If you want to spend your day having fun, that's going to cost you. The only real question is: how much will it cost, and how much fun will you have doing it.

There are exceptions: a good book from the library is free. A walk in the park is too---though at some parks you may have to pay to bring in your car. And, some of those exceptions are spectacular. For example, I spent a half-day hiking in RMNP, and that easily makes my short list of "Best Day Ever."

But, for the most part, if you spend a day "doing something", you'll easily drop at least what it costs for a one day ticket to an average park, and probably a good chunk more.

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 5:43 PM

birdhombre said:
And since I don't like Limozeen or most sports, those comparisons aren't going to mean squat to me.

And that's exactly the moment you quit looking at it objectively.

Which, to me, misses the whole point of those kinds of comparisons. It doesn't matter if I like Band X or Show X or Sport X. In fact, it helps that I don't.

The pricing of those things are in line with things I like to do which tells me I'm not overpaying for the things I like just because I like them.

The only reasonable discussion on the topic is going to be one that removes feelings from the equation. And that's hard when you're talking about things you do because of the good feeling they give.

So...

Timber-Rider is right in saying he doesn't see the value. The problem is his in that case.

He's wrong in saying it's overpriced. MiA is doing nothing wrong. People are paying the prices...and those prices are comparable to (or better than) other forms of entertainment.

It's a subtle, but distinct, difference.

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 6:03 PM

Timber Rider would have a fit to know what I paid for "cheap" Madonna tix to see her in November, but to me it was a decent value.

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Sunday, April 1, 2012 6:34 PM

Having been to MIAdv with the waterpark packed, I would think that using a fastpass wristband system for the waterpark would be the best way for CedarFair to make some additional money. Yes it's sad when an almost mid-sized park doesn't get the attention from corporate like the bigger parks, but I really enjoyed the size and selection of the dry side of MIAdv when I went in '08.

I thought Thunder Hawk was an excellent addition to the park, and maybe with some diehard fans emailing CF management MIAdv could be the park with the first Intamin MegaLite in the US (personally I'm hoping more that my home park Six Flags St. Louis will get one, but MIAdv would be a good fit too.)

I wasn't too impressed with Wolverine Wildcat the day I visited, and I'll admit it's a Dinn/Summers so I wasn't surprised with the roughness after how Timber Wolf has deteriorated since IT opened, but the rest of the coasters were a lot of fun. Yes, they eventually need to fill in the gap between WW and TH, but they have the space there to do that over time.

So, Timber-Rider, I'll say to you that I MYSELF hope MIAdv continues to get the crowds in the water park, and maybe next year or 2014 they add another good steel coaster to the park.

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