B&M mega train on looper...whens it going to happe

Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:10 PM
After the great reviews of Flight of Fear, wouldnt it be great?
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Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:29 PM
Never. Period. Straight from B&M. Not sure if they would change their mind, but... like I said...

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The Jet Coaster ROARS!
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Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:35 PM
when did they say that?
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Monday, May 28, 2001 3:56 AM
They couldn't risk it, with rides getting more intense and people getting more stupid there is bound to be a major accident using those trains on a looper.
Example:
Some idiot, overcome by the exstacy of the ride, stands up unaware that their life is about to come to an end, the park about to be sued for every penny theve got and the manufacturer (B&M) closed down.
B&M dont want that to happen, we dont want that to happen, the parks dont want that to happen...and besides some people like the smell of sweat and plastic as you lower the shoulder harness over their heads after a long hot day of ride usage.

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Editor - CoasterForce
http://www.coasterforce.com


*** This post was edited by Dan Farrell on 5/28/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Dan Farrell on 5/28/2001. ***
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Monday, May 28, 2001 6:03 AM
What about Flight of Fear? I'd call that pretty intense. There are numerous times when raised arms are able to to be bashed on the track. What about other manufacturers who have lapbars instead of OTSRs? Are they all unaware of some lawsuit that they could get in? I don't think so.
I believe it just all depends on what the park wants. B&Ms are generally so smooth that there is no reason to dislike the OTSRs. They don't have headbanging. There is no real lawsuit that B&M could get in a lawsuit due to roughness a.k.a. head injuries. However, I bet the Paramount parks realized that the chances of them getting alwsuit over head injuries outweighed the chances of trouble without OTSRs.

Just my two cents, not sure if it's true. :)

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A New World. A New Technology. One Last Hope for Salvation. Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Monday, May 28, 2001 6:11 AM
How would you stand up on a megacoaster train? You must have pretty strong arm muscles, considering that would be the only thing pushing you up, as your feet don't touch the bottom of the train.
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"We are no longer the knights who say Ni! We are now the knights who say eckyeckyeckyeckypakungloopoingengzourjin." "Ni"
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Monday, May 28, 2001 6:15 AM
Dan Farrell, check out sme previous discussions about OTSRs and lap bars, you might be surprised at what you find. (I challenge anyone to "stand up" on a B&M or Intamin hyper train!)
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- Peabody
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Monday, May 28, 2001 7:39 AM
Ok, so it is impossible to stand-up with the lap-restraint down! But You people are only thinking of yourselves - ENTHUSIASTS. You DO NOT WANT shoulder restraints because you like the freedom. Parks DONT care about YOU - they care about the people bringing in the most money - the general public. They like the sense of security OTSR's provide and would not ride without them. I know I would'nt have ridden an 8-10 inversion ride with just a lap bar as a general member of the public and a non-enthusaist at the time.
The point is, and I see the webmaster of this site Jeff, has continually said in the forums that you only think of things from the perspective of being a die-hard coaster enthusiast and not through the eyes of the general public or the park managers.
Think about this - I'm sure people who know anything about good management and marketing know this is the truth.
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Editor - CoasterForce
http://www.coasterforce.com
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Monday, May 28, 2001 9:44 AM
Sure some of the GP like OTSRs, but many don't. I went to BGW and PKD recently with a group of 20 non-enthusiasts. They all taked about how much more they enjoyed (Outer Limits) FOF with out the "big shoulder things", as many called them. Several asked me why Anaconda couldn't have just lap bars. I had to tell them, there isn't an real reason why it couldn't. The next day, at BGW, I overheard some of them saying how much they hated Drachen Fire, and wish it would open with just lap bars. Eventually, someone asked me what would happen if a coaster got stuck upside down with just a lap bar, and they were shocked to learn that it really did happen once!

Now where's Dave so he can give his excellent explination on why lap bars are safer, and why Kumba should have B&M mage trains? It's only a matter of time... :)
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- Peabody
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Monday, May 28, 2001 9:52 AM
They have to change the restraints.
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Monday, May 28, 2001 8:25 PM
Dan... don't use me to defend your position, because I totally disagree with you.

Loopers don't need OTSR's. If you wouldn't ride without them, that gets the rest of us that much closer to the train.

As RideMan has pointed out a few dozen times, your body is best secured at the waist, where your center of mass is. Premier Rides knows this, and that's why they retrofitted the Flight of Fear rides. OTSR's, if anything, can provide a false sense of security on some older rides where people can slide out under them or to the side where there are no seat dividers. See accidents on Intamin rides like the PGA drop ride and the defunct Flight Commander at PKI.

Dave also points out that putting your weight on the little collar bones versus the heaviest bones in your body, the femurs, makes it obvious.

Heck, even Vekoma knows this. Take a look at the Flying Dutchman trains. Where is the biggest restraint? Your waist. The shoulder restraints keep it comfortable with your body parallel to the track, but if they ever let go, the lap bar would keep you secure.

B&M might never do it, but I applaud Premier for defying decades of entrenched dogma.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Monday, May 28, 2001 8:52 PM
AMEN!
With rumors of Chiller getting the same retrofit as FOF, I have continuing hope!
(I'm not as antsy for B&M to hop on the bandwagon, but an Apollo's Chariot train on Kumba sounds mighty nice!)
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- Peabody
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Monday, May 28, 2001 8:57 PM
Just imagine a B&M inverted with only a lap bar; it could be a simple three point restraint - hinged on the right, a latch on the left, and a belt between your legs. The ride would be phenomenal, and the fact that you could actually see without that big padded bar next to your head...

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Monday, May 28, 2001 9:02 PM
You bet man. There was an inverted coaster train at IAAPHA that just had a lap bar and looked VERY secure. In fact, I think there is a pic of it on this site.
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- Peabody
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Tuesday, May 29, 2001 4:42 AM
Very true... you refer to Setpoint's Swing Thing, better known to most as Super Saturator at Carowinds:

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/features/iaapa2000/gallery/img.asp?img=ia00setswing2.jpg

I think I told the story of the park executive who told the Setpoint PR rep it was unsafe, only to look like a moron when he strapped in and tried to get out, but failed. I love that story. :)

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:28 AM
I though you all just enjoyed riding and talking about coasters, not dedicating your life to them and blasting people who have other opinions. Shouldn't a discussion be where everyone's views are taken on board??

Oh and Jeff, I've read posts where you said things like, "Cedar Point does not compete with Magic Mountain, it competes with SwoA, you have to stop seeing everything through the eyes of coaster enthusiasts" or soemthing very similar.

That was my point, I wasnt using you to back up my opinion on this topic, but my view of many of the members of this forum in general.

One other thing, if you had bothered to take Mechanics and Motion/Engineering like myself, you would know that the centre of mass isn't the only force acting on the rider, and it moves its position everytime you move - even when you walk. It can even be outside your body on a rollercoaster, which is why you feel airtime and freefall.
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Editor - CoasterForce
http://www.coasterforce.com


*** This post was edited by Dan Farrell on 5/29/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Dan Farrell on 5/29/2001. ***
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Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:37 AM
I just cant see it happening anytime soon on an inverted (with inversions). THEY JUST STARTED doing it again with Flight of Fear. I'm not totaly ruling it, but i think we have a while to wait. The idea itself sort of scares me a little, so i can imagine what the GP would thihnk about it.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:57 AM
Dan: Your views are "taken on board." Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are "blasting" your opinions. I could also do without the comments about what I dedicate my life to... you don't know the first thing about me.

Furthermore, I don't care much for smartass comments about what I should have "bothered" to take in college. Again, you have no idea. If you can't make an argument without getting personal, go away.

My opinion stands: There is no reason that loopers need OTSR's. Contrary to popular belief, my "center of mass" isn't my head, it's my mid-section, where I prefer to be secured to coaster seats.

I'm still waiting for anyone to give me a scientific reason indicating why OTSR's are safer than lap bars.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Tuesday, May 29, 2001 8:31 AM
Shoulder harnesses vs lap restraints:

If a coaster would collide with another train (which has happened), the shoulder harness would probably provide less internal injuries, just as a shoulder seat belt vs a lap seatbelt in a car.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2001 8:37 AM
Can you provide data to back that up?

By that logic, hypers should have OTSR's. I think we're talking about coasters with inversions.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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