B&M Four Seaters?
coasterdude318 said:
Do you think B&M just decided to use 4-across trains because they wanted short trains? No. The single-row articulation allows for a *much* smoother, more graceful ride.
Or perhaps they wanted a more consistent ride (which I believe they've stated).
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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
You must be this dumb to ride Viper. -SFGAdv.
Intamin Fan said:
Matthayman, would you stop with the Six Flags hatred? Medusa at SFGadv. just crushes people waiting in line. The ride attendants fly to get the trains loaded and on their way. In fact, most of the crews at Great Adventure are every bit as good as Cedar Point.
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2003-Gotham City @ SFA presenting Bathroom the Ride-Please remain seated at all times
I am not one of those six flags bashers. I have been to alot of Six Flags parks and not all of them do that but I go to SFWOA most out of all six flags and they do it with Batman all the time. I am not saying that all six flags do that. If you look I never said all six flags, I said most.
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Gen Pub - that Colossus track isn't as convoluted as it looks, especailly those zero-g rolls, which look tight only when viewed head-on.
Moosh
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Apollo Andy said:
MagnumForce said:
Both however have a higher capacity then Millenium Force but this is based more on track lenght then any other factor.
Not doubting you, but I don't see why this happens. On all three rides, the load station is the bottleneck and always has a train, but on MF, it's only a load station, not unload and load. This should, in theory, make the bottleneck point on MF faster than the bottleneck on the other two. Right?
You're both wrong. MagnumForce is right that Millie has less capacity, but it's not because of length. Amount of track has nothing to do with capacity: It's all about time. I think we're all agreed that it actually takes less time to navigate Millie's course than Maggie's, right? Anyway, Millie has less capacity for a simple reason: There's no mid-course block brake, and the lift is too short (time-wise) to be used as a block, like on Magunum. Consequently, there is only one train out on the course. Whereas Magnum can have a train on the course, on the lift, and in the station, Millennium Force will have one train on the course, one train loading in the station, and one just sitting empty in the brake run! In effect, it's like a built-in case of perpectual stacking. They just decided to let people get out in the brake run instead of just sitting there for a minute. While this may sometimes shave a bit of time off in the loading station, it can't be too often: Even after the longest delays I saw the day I was there, the train sat, loaded and ready, for enough time to have let the previous riders unload.
Somewhat on topic, I like B&M's 4-across seating because it halves waiting time for popular rows, such as the very front and back!
Umm...to be curt, no. Check your pipelining theory. Regardless of blocking, the capacity of the ride can be measured in the station: The number of trains you can send out of the station per hour. If there's always a train in the station waiting to load or being loaded or being checked (which all three rides do), it doesn't matter what the other trains are doing or where your blocks are (the problem is on a ride like PR, where you don't always have a train waiting).
Now with MF, that stage of the pipeline is shorter (in theory) because you don't have to wait for an unload. Thus the number of trains they can load and send out of the station is greater per hr.
Unless you're claiming that the full train has to wait in the station for the previous train to clear a block, which I think we decided wasn't the case in the "why does MF's lift speed up" topic (presumably it speeds up when the previous train has cleared the block).
In other words, I think MF's load station is always running at full capacity and because it's only load, it's faster than Mag's unload and load at full capacity.
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*** This post was edited by ApolloAndy on 12/4/2002. ***
Actually, that Millie's trains just hang around the station is exactly my point. Don't tell me they don't: I've experienced it first hand. That lift has nothing to do with blocks of any kind. I observed the movements of the trains while I was in line, and saw neither hide nor hair of a train on the lift hill until the train on the course was already at the end of the ride, or even in the brake run. Also, I believe I read here, from someone who knew what they were talking about (perhaps rideman? I can't remember for sure), that Millie's lift accelerates for purely mechanical reasons. This would dovetail with my own (admitadly un-scientific) observations that the acceleration seemed to happen at the same point each time.
P.S. what do you mean, if there's always a train in the station loading, or waiting to be checked? The same could be said of Viper (SFGAm) or any two-train coaster. It's a matter of how quickly the trains can be dispatched. Ride duration and blocking (assuming good ride ops) are what determine this.
*** This post was edited by (SF)Great American on 12/4/2002. ***
Intamin Fan said:
Matthayman, would you stop with the Six Flags hatred? Medusa at SFGadv. just crushes people waiting in line. The ride attendants fly to get the trains loaded and on their way. In fact, most of the crews at Great Adventure are every bit as good as Cedar Point.
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2003-Gotham City @ SFA presenting Bathroom the Ride-Please remain seated at all times
Not quite but the medusa crew was really good by the end of the year. When one lead op is an enthusiast who i belive posts in the buzz comunity exepect a much faster more diligent crew.
Check your pipelining theory. If the bottleneck stage in a pipeline is working at throughput X in two pipelines, it doesn't matter how well the other stages are working, the throughput will be X. So, for instance, B:TR and Raptor have the same theoretical capacity, if they're always loading 32 car trains as fast as the ops can send 'em. Even if Raptor were 100' long with 8 trains and 12 blocks, it would still have the same (32 * speed of ops) capacity.
Re: MF: If the full train on it's way out of the station does indeed have to wait for the previous train for some reason, then you are, in fact, correct. MF's capacity should be lower. However, in my own experience (which is admittedly only 8 rides), this was not the case. shrug
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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
You must be this dumb to ride Viper. -SFGAdv.
*** This post was edited by ApolloAndy on 12/4/2002. ***
B&M trains DO have higher capacity than Arrow/Vekoma but not Intamin.
Arrow trains are six or seven four person cars. (24/28)
B&M are eight four person cars. (32)
Vekoma are six or seven four person cars or ten two person cars. (24/28/20)
Intamin, however, does eight or nine four person cars. (32/36)
B&M trains can manage much more twisted track and tight loops than others. (Hm... why didn't Arrow do the Zero - G - Roll on DF? [Monte/Colosuss's seem rather wide]) Whether they've maxed out tightness, I don't know. They can also allow much more roomy cars while still maintaining shorter trains.
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Säubern Sie mit Milch?
I think Expedition GeForce has 7 cars... which is pretty standard for most coasters anyway (correct if in error).
I think the basic conclusion we can all draw from this discussion is that "yes, B&Ms do seat 4 across."
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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
I don't think there's really a "standard."
Intamin's and B&M's both run anywhere from 7-9. Arrow and Morgan hypers have 6 cars of 6 (from what I've seen). etc. etc.
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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
You must be this dumb to ride Viper. -SFGAdv.
So, can anyone explain Oblivion?
9x2? Is that right? What's the theory behind that one?
d8
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"Getting on Iron Wolf is kind of like going in a blender and pressing PUREE"
*** This post was edited by du8die on 12/4/2002. ***
S:RoS SFNE runs 9 car trains.
All B&M hypers have the 9 row trains (Apollo's is the one you missed). None of their other coasters have them.
The 9x2 (I thought is was 8x2, but...) on Oblivion (and G5?) is to increase the number of people that can be in the front row for that drop.
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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
You must be this dumb to ride Viper. -SFGAdv.
Like I said...
We can agree that B&Ms have 4-across seating.
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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
*** This post was edited by General Public on 12/5/2002. ***
BTW, I believe the reason Oblivion has two rows is to allow the holding brake effect to work on all rows, and also to lessen the pullover that drop would create on the back rows of a longer train. The more seats across, of course, are to increase capacity from eight to sixteen per train (Oblivion seats eight across, not nine).
-Nate
Millie's trains are dispatched when the train before it does it's station fly-by and goes over the bunny, no sooner. When running three trains unload is used as a block.
Moosh
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