B&M Four Seaters?

Tuesday, December 3, 2002 3:41 PM
I had a question, I'm doing this science fair and my science teacher saw some of my photos I showed her of like Batman: Knight Flight and some of the Phantom's Revenge among others. Anyway my teacher wanted me to find out aside from the social aspect like riding with all 3 of your friends in one row why does B&M use 4 seaters instead of the traditional 2, and is there a real big factor with the extra seats that goes into the design and manufacture. I know with riding alot of these riding on the outside is more wild anf fun, while riding on the inside is more tame.

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The Jokes on You!! Ha Ha

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 3:44 PM
Yes there are other reasons. First off, it is easier to design since B&M trains are thus shorter, and the speed during drops and inversions is more constant throughout the train. Also, B&Ms have wider track. Intamin was the one who started 4 across seating, and still uses it.
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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 3:49 PM
Check out Flashback at SFMM. I belive (I may be wrong) that was the first coaster designed by Wally and Claude, and maybe even the first 4 across seater. Look at how that thing turns and dives then imagine that in a long 2 across train!
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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 3:52 PM
Capacity is greater, making lines move faster (not at most six flags parks), which gives people more time to wander the midways, buy food, drinks, and souveniers, and also the pay attractions. Because people can get more rides in if it is a higher capacity ride, most people will want to come back again because they had a good time and the park makes more money again if they come back.

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*** This post was edited by Matthayman on 12/3/2002. ***

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 3:58 PM

I think it's for the sole purpose of doubling train capacity without increasing train length.

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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:03 PM

No, B&M's have the same amount of seats as other coasters, it's about decreasing train length, not adding more riders.

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- Peabody

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:06 PM

quote: Check out Flashback at SFMM. I belive (I may be wrong) that was the first coaster designed by Wally and Claude

you are kinda right, they were with intamin at the time who actaully manufactured the ride. i do prefer B&M coasters from a social view as the original post said. you can ride with more people rather than a 2 across train, but i dont think thats the reason, its just an added bonus.

i personally think one of the reasons could be to make shorter trains and so almost everyone on the train has a very similar ride which i read somewhere that B&M like.

but, if you think about it, 4 across doesnt really improve capacity dramitcally. intamin cars do hold 4 people per car, its just that they are in 2 rows of 2. a millennium force trains holds 36 people as does a raging bull car. the only difference is that a raging bull train will be shorter. make of that what you will!

edit: damn, peabody beat me to it. mental note, next time, dont look at RCDB just to double check my figures!

*** This post was edited by laurence on 12/3/2002. ***

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:10 PM
Whats really cool is S&S' 4 abreast seating. No better ride to see how brave your friends really are. Theres this one portable freefall i rode, and the way the seats were laid out, no two seats faced the same direction. Because of the restraints, you couldn't see your friends, and the ride sucked.
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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:14 PM
would that tower ride where you cant see people be a fabbri? detonator at thorpe park is one of these and you really cant see anyone which is annoying when you are having a competition with your sister to see who holds on first! those seats do have 2 advantages though, loads of arm room and you do get a feeling that you are the only person on the ride at times
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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:16 PM

Capacity is no greater on 4-wide B&Ms than on any other 2-wide.

EDIT: D'oh. You all beat me to it, lol. Last time I open a page, walk away, and type a response!

Laurence, the first B&M was Iron Wolf at SFGAm. Flashback (originally Z-Force at SFGAm) was built by Intamin, but Bolliger and Mabillard worked at Intamin at that time.

*** This post was edited by JoNoJ27 on 12/3/2002. ***

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:21 PM
Yes, I believe it was indeed a Fabbri. A portable fair type one infact. What was nice about it was that the fairground had an ocean view (del mar fair), the ride didn't require any more tickets than other rides, and the ride stopped at the top for like 20 seconds (probably not true in theme parks though). It had bad capacity though. Probably only like 10 seats total. Compare that to the typical 24-48 on Intamin and S and S towers.
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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:23 PM
On interesting design note is that since the B&M trains are shorter, they exert more force on the track because the weight is more concentrated.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
You must be this dumb to ride Viper. -SFGAdv.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:26 PM
Yea, but then there must have been a reason aside from increasing capacity, I mean most of the 2 seaters from arrow and vekoma have a circular backbone with a skeleton support structure, while B&M's have a square backbone much larger than the circular one and has the V stlye support sturucture?

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The Jokes on You!! Ha Ha

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:27 PM
Methinks the 4 across trains are better able to manuever B&M's complex design layouts.
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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:36 PM

quote: "Laurence, Flashback (originally Z-Force at SFGAm) was built by Intamin, but Bolliger and Mabillard worked at Intamin at that time."

thats what i said! and the fabbri tower at thorpe park has 12 seats and has an average of a 5 second hold at the top. it even gives you a countdown when you are at the top, but it doesnt always go on the zero! they are the best ride ops in the park though. the teasing with the countdown combined with the best one click ride i have ever had on the ride with the most airtime i have ever been on is a classic!

anyway, back to the topic in hand. i personally think that intamin track is stronger than B&M track. all those triangles on intamin track must make it very strong seeing as a triangle is the strongest shape in enginnering terms i believe. i just think that intamin are happy with their train design so dont see a change

*** This post was edited by laurence on 12/3/2002. ***

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:36 PM

Well, in term of manuverability, the limiting factor is either going to be the distance between the wheel fixtures (which is greater on the Intamins, making them less manuverable) or the angle at which the seats touch (which would be less on the B&M's because the seats are wider and taller (on most floorlesses and inverts, you can kick the seat in front of you at some point)).

I would imagine that the latter would be a bigger factor though, giving B&M's larger minimum turning radius.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
You must be this dumb to ride Viper. -SFGAdv.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:40 PM
Now that I think about it, the capacity isn't that much greater but it does make a little difference. It just seems like it improves capacity because most beemers have great capacity (if not run by six flags).

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Now Reopened With A New Layout!!!

*** This post was edited by Matthayman on 12/4/2002. ***

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:45 PM

I have noticed a difference in capacity, at least on the hypers, just because it makes the ops' job easier. Shorter train (each side can pretty much check two at a time), no seat belt. Of course, this is comparing S:RoS SFNE to Nitro (the two coasters I'm most familiar with) and it may just be a difference in the ops.

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:48 PM
i think capacity seems to be better as there are less rows to check and so trains can be dispatched quicker, but again, i dont think it makes much difference. compare batman: the ride to something like millennium force, both would be about the same but B:TR could be dispatched quicker. there is no real way of knowing really though i guess!

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Nemesis Inferno - The Pressure is Building!

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Tuesday, December 3, 2002 4:51 PM

Speedy said:
Whats really cool is S&S' 4 abreast seating. No better ride to see how brave your friends really are. Theres this one portable freefall i rode, and the way the seats were laid out, no two seats faced the same direction. Because of the restraints, you couldn't see your friends, and the ride sucked.


Are you talking about the chance slingshot?

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