B&M coasters getting boring.

Nope.

They build what the parks want. I remember an interview with one of the 2 (I forget which one) and he said that he often wishes they could build coasters more intense likw B:TR.

I don't believe every foot of every one of them I've been on represents orgasmic, toe-twitching perfection. But boring? Hardly.

-'Playa

Wow. You know, one thing I really want to do in the next couple years (before college, I have 3 years) is go on a tour to find some really good B&M's. My all time favorite roller coaster is Raptor at CP, I can't explain it, I just love it. For a floorless, Dominator at Geauga Lake is pretty good. And, sadly, that's all I've been on B&M wise.

I would love to get on a Superman flying one, even a few more inverts. In fact... Dueling Dragons at Worlds of Adventure... that combined with Hulk... I should really get to Orlando. Last time I was there, there was no WoA. Just Universal Studios. I know, asking alot of people for their opinion is bad, but is there any other must ride B&M's?

I agree somewhat. Rides like Scream ,Medusa (SFGadv) and Nitro were boring. SUF and Sheikra are different and fun.

In general I like Intamins a whole lot better. They have a whole lot more intensity that B&M rarely offers. If premier builds some bigger coasters they will surpass B&M in my book.

There are plenty of B&M's I love. Fire Dragon, Raptor, Montu, Kumba, B:TR, all of the hyper coasters, etc.

There are plenty of B&M's I think that are pretty good. Great Bear, most of the floorless coasters, a couple of the stand-ups.

And there are a few I'm not nuts about. Hulk's ending leaves me cold, Dominator is missing a zero g roll, Talon's pacing is just too sleepy for me, and Riddler's Revenge lacked that fire I'm looking for in coasters.

And yes, it seems as though I greatly prefer their designs from the mid 90's than what they're building now. But I'd still rather ride a B&M than no coaster at all. *** Edited 9/9/2005 12:41:24 AM UTC by matt.***

Nesdude: If you're in Orlando already, you might as well hit BGT too. Kumba is far and away my favorite steel, Montu gets CBaby's top vote and then there's Sheikra.

-'Playa

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Beast Fan said:
I sort of think that it more has to do with what the parks ask for.

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Wait, so Walter and Claude can't just build whatever the hell they want? Get right out of town! Engineers building what the customer asks for. That's crazy talk!

I wouldn't say the B&Ms I have ridden (2 Batman clones and Wildfire) were boring, but they weren't great. They were just kind of somewhere in between great and horrible... average I guess. I actually found Serial Thriller at SFAW to be more exciting, enjoyable, and reridable than the Batmans. From my experiences with B&Ms, I wouldn't go out of my way to ride one (a Schwarzkopf is another story though).

I love Beemers. Maybe it's because I don't have one near me that makes them exciting. I love how they roar through the track rather than vibrate like an hold Schwarzkopf )and even a modern Intamin. Although MF and TTD are very smooth, Superman at SFDL shuffles so much and just vibrates. In no way painful but I love the 'feel' you get on all B&Ms.

B&Ms are expensive coasters and that's why you don't always see huge B&Ms with forceful layouts, instead you see rides like Hydra and Silver Bullet that have been coming out recently. Go ride Raptor and tell me it's not a fun ride.

One more thing, the Gereral Public loves thrills but aside from my friends and I, another family came. They rode Raptor and said the constant change of direction was too much and that not knowing where they are going was intense, but almost too intense. I know that this sounds like a good ride from an enthusiast's persective but maybe the general public doesn't always want the most twisted unpredictable coasters, but rather coasters that are smooth, a bit intense, and most of all fun. I think this is where B&M has gone with Hydra and Silver Bullet, both of which aren't too intense from what I hear, but very fun. *** Edited 9/9/2005 1:41:03 AM UTC by Ride of Steel***

The thing with me and B&M, is I don't go in thinking I'm riding an Intamin or that it *should* ride like an Intamin. I've ridden enough of them to know they have a very distintive feel to them. Some are more intense than others, but generally I know what I'm getting and I feel they've earned the right to be judged on their own terms, not always compared to other companies who are going for something completely different.

Some of their rides are a bit too tame and robotic for my tastes (mostly the floorlesses), some that kick arse(Fire, Montu, Batman) and most other that just have an incredible fun factor (Nitro, Sheikra, Top Gun). But what amazes me about them is how well they fit into the parks that purchase them. These guys do their homework.

My experience with Beemers is a mixed bag; some rides are super-smooth (e.g. Dominator), while a handful are quite rough (e.g. Mantis). Some are intense (Batman clones), while some are nearly forceless (silver bullet). Some are all inversions with no extra lace (Scream!) while others are quite - lacy (?) (Dominator again, Great Bear).

But then again, there is one thing that stays the same with Beemers - their half spins are really weird.

Well, Goliath, I agree that Goliath's helix was quite a bit more intense. In fact, I doubt that I've ever felt that way in a helix before. However (and see, me and Kraxel can agree on things), I was suprised to feel such an intense helix on a Beemer when I rode Silver Bullet. It wasn't the most intense, however, it was fairly heavy when I was there. I enjoyed it.

The point is, however, not that other coasters are more intense. I blacked out for a second on Face/Off (and I had ridden Two Face prior and not blacked out), but didn't feel a thing except intense Gs on Goliath (which is one of my favorite coasters, btw). The point is, I've yet to find them boring, esp. the newer crop that has 'cropped' up. :)

I pity anyone who doesn't get excited for beemer. I do think some of their designs get cloned or semi-cloned too often which takes away from the company's potential. Thankfully there are parks without Six and Flags in the title.

And there is also Paramount, with no cloned Beemers that I've seen anywhere.

Perhaps this is the better question: why would a park request that a company build them a boring thrill ride (read: forceless, non-intense) in the first place? In other words, why should a THRILL ride ever be tame? Family rides, sure... they should be palatable for gramps as well as junior. But a B&M looper or invert? Why should it be anything but intense? It's not like anyone remotely frightened of thrill rides is going to queue up for those anyway.

I've ridden 22 B&M's, most of which I've thoroughly enjoyed. But I can understand the criticism, especially after riding Hydra this year. The ride wasn't bad, but it wasn't particularly thrilling, either. A month prior to that I finally got to ride Kumba, and it thrilled the hell out of me.

It just seems to make as much sense as building a 150-foot wooden ride with no speed or airtime. (Honestly... I wasn't even thinking of Mean Streak when I typed that ;) )

Since WoF added Spinning Dragons for the families to replace the long gone Zinger, Patriot better fill the thrill gap left by OE :)

Well I guess an even better question would be, why are some of the more intense Beemers ( Montu, Alpie, Raging Bull, Mantis) trimmed down to being darn near tame?

There stands part of your answer. If parks are trimming the life out of some of the pre-existing B&M's, it would make sense that they would offer a tamer product to begin with.

My theory is that parks realize that they get more bang for their buck if they offer a ride that the whole family can feel comfortable coming to the park and riding, and that includes grandma and grandpa.

Like everthing else, it all comes back to "profit".

I have to say with my experience with Beemers goes like this. I havent rode many. 3 Inverts (Raptor, Talon, and Great Bear), 1 Standup (Mantis), 2 Floorless (Dominator, Hydra). The thing is all have unique layouts to all of them so far. The thing is i know there are a few clones out there, mostly inverts, but and the but is a big word, they are all unique, whether it be maintenence done on them or whatnot can offer a different ride. The elements and pacing do it for me. Talon and Raptor blow things off the charts with some great pacing and yes the helixes, but the double helix on raptor is just amazing. I wont mention Great Bear although unique the pacing seems to get lost while going back and forth through the layout. Same can be said of Hydra elements are alright, but i think the pacing is something terrible, because it traverses the course three times. Meaning after the drop it goes into its first set of elements or element, forgive me its been a few months, then goes into the cobra roll and then goes back to finish off. Dominator is the prime example of great ride from start to finish of all of them. Does it right in pacing and the elements are nicely put throughout. That is why its the best beemer i have been on. But to state that they clone and all means we should be going to parks to try out the ones they have out there. I havent been on a hyper, but look to hit apollo next year. Hypers are my favorite coaster out there, but i have done the standard arrow/morgan, so i cant say anything to b&M on those. So what if they havent made a new kind of coaster in a few years, but it seems that they are doing fine with the ones they have. i also forgot to mention the flyers, but i havent been on one that is a beemer. so with that being said I mean the company is the best at what they do and inverts are a must for most places, because they are so enjoyed, i think that was what the first post originally got at. I think Patriot set this off, i hope to ride that too.

EXACTLY.....the whole family enjoys riding Bull the way it is, for example....

If I could get an ERT session on that thing and have it run *trimless*, I'm sure it would land in my top-5 steelies...as it IS, though, not even close to top-10...(and I have about 13-14 steelies in my top 10, LOL)....;)

But how much *need* is there for a coaster that intense? Desire, beyond belief! But business-wise, that's NOT going to get you the kind of drawing power for the MASSES that the toned-down version gets...

I guess I can understand why so tall, it draws the attention and is readily marketable...but can't we just trim the daylights out of it halfway down the first drop, then let it run FREE the rest of the course...that would be better IMO than the constant *tap tap tap* of trims needlessly "littering" the course...

Personally if it's a beema, it's going to be awesome in SOME way. Some are intense, some are not so intense, some are overrated, underrated, and some just keep getting better.

I haven't met a beema that I DIDN'T like.

I don't understand why people are complaining about something they haven't even given a chance yet. I am excited about Patriot! It *may* have the same layout as Talon, but from my experience even if it's a cloned beema it's still a different experience. Even the old Batmans don't quite all feel the same. ;-)

Sure, we would LOVE B&M to build according to what WE would like/daydream about, but 95% (or so) of the parks' revenues come from the GP, not coaster enthusiasts. Besides, if ALL B&M's were *intense* life would be boring. You need variety in life...I suppose. ;-)

I like every beema I have ever rode (even Iron Wolf) and each one has it's own special qualities.

Nowadays I don't hold any expectations for any new coasters, let alone beemas. On the other hand if I know if it's a beema, Intamin, or GCI I will most likely LOVE it.

When Dorney first announced Talon they REALLY overhyped it. My expectations were beyond high. I thought it was going to be the end-all of inverted coasters. Well, it didn't exactly dissapoint me but it didn't blow me away the way I expected it to. I was expecting it to blow Raptor away into Lake Erie.

With Silver Bullet and Scream for that matter, I had very low expectations. I heard nothing but low to mediocre opinions about both of them. Well, BOTH blew me away. I found Silver Bullet to be more intense than expected, and I pretty much stayed on it during ERT at Solace. AWESOME coaster. Hydra I had no expectations. Even though it didn't blow me away I DID enjoy it, even the jo-jo roll.

The point is......don't judge a coaster till you try it, even if you *know* that it may dissapoint, hurt, blow you away, make you see your life flash before your face, see God, have an gasm, etc. ;-)

Who cares if the Patriot *may* be a clone. Most of the gp that goes to Worlds of Fun probably doesn't even know that Talon exists, and could care less, the same way people who go to PKI have no clue that another IJ exists or that one is going to be built at Carowinds.

-Tina

*** Edited 9/9/2005 11:13:13 AM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***