Beast trains "collide" at 5 mph, riders sent to hospital

Again, as Dave said this is all speculation.

I assume that Cobra29with99 means the station area when he says the brake area.  It seems very unlikely that following a block violation a train would be advanced through several blocks prior to shutting down the ride.  Especially being advanced to the point where the blocking violation would have occurred.

If the sequence that Dave describes occurred, I would expect that the collision would have involved quite a bit of energy resulting in injuries much more serious than those which occurred.

Dave, I assume that you saw trains at E & G.  Is this correct?  Also its been a while since I've ridden the Beast, are there 4 full sets of brakes as you describe in the the station area?  That's more than usual, but then the Beast is an unusual coaster. Finally, which sets of brakes are covered and which are open? *** This post was edited by Jim Fisher on 10/15/2001. ***

About the comment about trains not being equipped to deal with collisions...I know v2 and Batman both have bumpers on the front and back of the trains...that seems to be something to deal with collisions to me.  I've never really looked, but I would assume there would be some sort of bumper on other types of coasters besides inverts.  Maybe not way back when tho.  Who knows.  S:ROS crashed that one time earlier this year and they said it was 20mph and I think only 20-some people went to the hospital and people were exiting and entering at that time...so maybe there is bumper thing on the new coasters which can lessen impact( I've never seen S:ROS so I really don't know if they have a bumper on the back or the front). Just speculation.

seeing as how V2 is a shuttle ride and thus a one train operation, i don't think the "bumpers" are there for protection against collisions.  What are those things actually called anyway??

I don't know about V2, but some coaster trains have bumpers on the end which protect the train from damage when it hits the stops in the train shed when it is being stored.  These serve only to protect the train when moving at a very slow speed.  They are not designed to protect the passengers.  These bumpers are nothing like the energy absorbing structures incorporated in modern automobiles which are designed to have the structure of the car crumple in a controled manor to absorb an impact.

Rideman here is a possible scenario.  When the second train enterred block (G) it slid too far and went past the sensors in block (G).  This allowed the third train to get past (E) and when entering the runoff area slide into the train that is now at (H).
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Top 5 coasters:
1. The Beast 2. Millenium Force 3. The Incredible Hulk 4. Superman: ROS (SFNE) 5. Alpengeist

Well technically, since you brought it up...v2 has steel bumpers on the front and back of the train which will hit the bumpers at the top of each spike if the train somehow was going too fast(to stop it from flying off the end, lol).  Thanks for trying to clarifying about the one train operation...I think I know that :-)  My point was simply that I've seen many coasters I have seen have bumpers on them, and I specifically remember v2 having them.

And about the bumpers for parking the trains...I'm gonna say No...atleast not on Batman that is not what they are for.  They are on both the front and back of the trains.

I know why the Beast collided yesterday...It knew I was coming to the park and had to find a way to shut down to keep me from getting a night ride (it's 3 for 3 in doing that, now).  I think the Beast hates me.  (The only reason I joke like this is because there were thankfully no injuries!)

If the trains collided in the loading station, then those holding brakes must have been REALLY wet, since they are so long and typically stop the train a good 50 feet from the station entrance.  I also found it strange since they're covered, so they shouldn't get that wet.  As a ride, the Beast must have been flying that morning.

Lastly, I don't know why PKI was even running 3 trains on a day like yesterday when we could count the number of cars in the parking lot in less than a few minutes!

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It's a simple equation: CCI + CP = #1 Wooden Coaster!

To address various issues here, particularly Jim Fisher's questions, and referring to the block diagram I cooked up earlier...

Yes, the trains I saw (from Vortex) were at (E) and (G).

In normal operation, a loaded train will stop in the final brake shed uptrack of the station, but will obviously stop on two separate brake skids. When the train in the station leaves, the rearmost brake will drop, and occasionally the stopped train will roll forward a couple of feet. I believe that brake is actually (F). When the train in the station passes (B), which is located just after the turnaround out of the station and before Lift #1, the second brake drops and the train begins to roll onto the final brake (H) uptrack of the station. That brake doesn't drop until the train ahead is well onto the first lift, and that brake is used to slow the train as it approaches and parks in the station. It's quite a conservative block configuration because it keeps a lift or at least one unoccupied brake between trains at all times, even between the train in the station and the train on the ready brake (G). (I feel like I'm writing a patent description here!)

The PTC trains do have a set of three spring-loaded bumpers on the back of the train, but I have no idea how effective those are at absorbing energy.

Bmuskie, your scenario makes sense, but I am not sure how the trains are checked in and out of the various blocks. For instance, I don't know if it is "good enough" for a train to clear (G) before the lift (E) restarts, or if the train also has to clear (H) and enter the station (A). That's a programming and system configuration problem that none of us here, to the best of my knowledge, is really qualified to answer.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Here's an article from the Cincinnati Enquirer that says where the trains bumped

http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/10/15/loc_beast_riders_taken.html

*** This post was edited by KIBeast on 10/15/2001. *** *** This post was edited by KIBeast on 10/15/2001. ***

Actually, I think most trains have these little bumpers on them.  They could just be in case trains bumped for some reason while moving through the station, or maybe to hit something in a transfer track. MF has the yellow pads (red in brakes pic), CCMR looks like it has a pad(helix pic),  *** This post was edited by force312 on 10/15/2001. ***

Ive never heard of this type of block description before on the Beast. Can someone please pull up a diagram or something? I would really appreciate it.
Also, I saw someone mention how the tracks could have gotten wet. The shelter over the track doesnt give any protection from rain coming from the side. All that has to happen is to get a wind coming from the open side (TRTR side) and you can get it wet. Ive gotten wet this way before. Plus, you have to imagine that the pads are hitting the wet skids on the hills as well. Those arent covered, which would get the pads wet, and therefor moisture would get onto the skids underneath the structures.
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all about PKI
the Beasts` Den *** This post was edited by PKI_MAN on 10/15/2001. ***

Everyone and your "theories," everyone wants to be the safety expert who knows what happen, or take a guess on what happen... I'll tell you enthusiast are some great comical people, who make my job fun..... You guy's have all the good "inside info" yeah right, if you had inside info, you'd never post, show's that even the enthuisast has lost the common-sense as well as the patron, who's always at fault... You guy's type a good game, but have no clue what is going on, but don't let me stop you, your "inside info" is great and shows how important you are..

RideMan won't admit to it, but by my definition he is an expert. While not employed to inspect rides, Dave has been a student of ride safety systems for years, and if I recall, has at some point tested for inspection rights.

Instead of coming on here and insulting everyone anonymously (which takes real courage), why don't you share with us correct answers to our questions?

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I have just gotten word from Jennifer Bowers (Pr)that they expect the Beast to be operating this weekend. I did ask her what her plans were, if they were getting new brakes, but she didnt respond to the question.

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http://www.islandguide.8m.com
all about PKI
the Beasts` Den

Jeff: He could know every in and out of any coaster ever made, that means nothing in the grand scheme of things, he could be a level 3 engineer, he could have a master's degree from MIT; that has also means nothing.... An amusement park safety expert who REALLY works for an amusement park, never, never, never, speculates or would post about any accident, as they hold to their code of honor.... He could be right about everything he has posted, and I'd say good job! But any good expert would never speculate on these boards, so right there I know he may be good, but he's not the real thing, or am I for that matter ;)

Real courage, yeah I have none at all I'm such a wimp.. I'd better cancel all my conference calls... you have my e-mail address why don't you e-mail me since I'm such a wimp.... and we could have a friendly chat :)

I hate to say it, but I think I would have to agree with Why Me.  Dave may have the credentials, but does he have a knowledge of the ride?  The only ones who can actually comment are the THREE who were working the ride.  And then, the managers and employees of PKI.
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PKI Rides Operator, King Cobra Crew 2000 & 2001

Why me: Jeff may have your email address, but I do not; when I click on (Info) all I get is a blank page. But you've certainly got my email address (which happens to be dalthoff@capital.edu) and if you'd like to discuss this over email, I have no objection.

On the other hand, the news pages of CoasterBuzz are no place for this sort of personal stuff. Attack me or anybody else all you want in the forum pages (to the limits of what Jeff and his moderators will allow), or better still let's have a friendly discussion. But here on the news pages...let's stick to the news and discussion about the news, shall we? Thanks!

Now, getting back to the matter at hand...
KIBeast, from that article, it sounds like we're back to people injured while exiting the train. Question is, why did at least three distinct sets of skid brakes fail to stop the train...the weather was downright nasty (if the weather at the park was anything like what I drove through to get there) with high winds as well as pouring rain. But I wouldn't have expected that to be enough to keep the train from stopping just because of the sheer length of the brake run.

PKI_Man, what is unclear? Remember, the description we've been using in this thread is not an official description of the Beast's block system; I don't have access to such information at this time, and besides, it's not important for identifying what bits ended up where....

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Whose credentials are not terribly impressive

This is getting WAY out of hand. This topic is about an incident on an amusement ride, not an open door for people to make assumptions about others. There is NOTHING wrong with a person providing information based on what he or she witnessed. Additional information (especially an analysis of the potential cause of an incident) is always welcome, since I have seen lots of Buzzers ask about how rides work (or don't).
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Seems to me that operator error could have been a factor here..  The end of the ride is "covered" (i am sure some rain hit it.. ) but could it be that slick to allow a loaded train to break all 3 brake runs?  Just some thoughts... 

 

jim

Why me: I agree that if I was employed in the amusement industry you wouldn't see my postings here with regards to accidents.  It would be improper and unethical.  That's why you won't see me posting anywhere with regards to safety issues in the chemical industry.  I will speculate about accidents in the chemical industry, but only with others in the industry, not in a public forum.  However, I can apply the same safety analysis techniques used in the chemical industry to amusement rides.  This can be of some value in showing the enthusiast community what the issues are.  It is also entertaining for guys like Dave and me.