Astroworld Viper

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Jeffrey Seifert said:
During the auction, there were bids to take the coasters as scrap metal and the top bid for Viper was $6,000. SFI didn't even scrap the whole coaster just the track so they probably only got about $3,000 for the metal. I don't know how you could possibly consider this to be a good business decision. Viper had to be worth more than $3,000 as a coaster. I find it appalling that you can try to justify the desecration of an Anton classic as "recycling," and then have the nerve to tell anyone who disagrees with you that they are ignorant.

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Assuming the bidder who would take Viper for $6k knew they could get more for it as scrap, Six Flags must have figured they'd bypass the middleman and scrap it themselves. So, I expect it was worth a little more than $6000 as scrap.

But yeah, the going rate for most small flat rides is more than $10,000... as a coaster it was surely worth more than that if only there were a buyer.

If they scrapped those rides, then Six Flags as a company would be no more.

I know that sounds cold to those members who live in Houston. But the sale of Astroworld was done by the previous regime and was too far along for the new regime to stop it. Snyder was quoted before he won the vote, that if he took control he wanted Astroworld to stay open until he could make his own appraisal of the scenario. I doubt this sale of parks will go so far as to completely close all Six Flags parks.

They could scrap some coasters to make money but they aren't going to scrap a ride like Nitro which is a good draw at GAdv. Great American Scream Machine I would say could be scrapped. As a matter of fact I would be all for scrapping it and putting in a dark ride. Theme it well, sit it on that plot of land, and people walking into the park will flock to the area to see what it is and want to ride it. Plus this fits the new regimes plan... families first. *** Edited 3/17/2006 6:43:41 PM UTC by dragonoffrost***

Thanks Jeffrey. I grew up with Schwarzkopf coasters and to this day they are still among my most favorite coasters. I guess it's all how you look at it, but personally to me, Schwarzkopf coasters are the equivilant of a Picaso. They were and still are such amazing pieces of living art, and now with more and more being casually discarded to the scrap heap (yes casually because these works of art deserve better than that) is a disgrace.

I don't care how much the scrap metal was worth or how this is justified as a good business decision, there are some things in life that are worth more than they are made of. A classic amazing coaster like this didn't deserve to be casually destroyed, that should have been the very last option after all others options were exhausted. The fun and joy it could have continued to bring new generations in a new home far surpasses the few thousand dollars SF got for the scrap metal. And those that don't understand this are the truly ignorant ones.

*** Edited 3/18/2006 12:10:37 AM UTC by jomo***

You know something, this all starting to make sense to me now. Six Flags needed to scrap those 2 coasters to get the money, so that they could pump into SFNO. You know, that park which is offically closed for the entire 2006 season. Got to pay those property taxes somehow, I guess.

I'm not saying to write off SFNO, or anything like that. But, it's kind of strange how they can just pull the plug on fully functional parks(Frontier City), and keep one that will not make them one dollar for the 2006 season. *** Edited 3/18/2006 5:39:50 AM UTC by Coasterphan***

Can't sell SFNO, the city owns everything. Frontier City they can sell.

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Fierce Pancake said:
Can't sell SFNO, the city owns everything. Frontier City they can sell.

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Okay then. Any takers yet on Frontier City?

Or, is Six Flags looking at more potential scrap metal.

Six Flags has a standing contract and lease with the city of New Orleans in regards to Six Flags New Orleans. They can't just dump it without the consequences of breach of contract, which in turn could produce an unwanted lawsuit and media attention.

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jomo said:
Thanks Jeffrey. I grew up with Schwarzkopf coasters and to this day they are still among my most favorite coasters. I guess it's all how you look at it, but personally to me, Schwarzkopf coasters are the equivilant of a Picaso. They were and still are such amazing pieces of living art, and now with more and more being casually discarded to the scrap heap (yes casually because these works of art deserve better than that) is a disgrace.

I don't care how much the scrap metal was worth or how this is justified as a good business decision, there are some things in life that are worth more than they are made of. A classic amazing coaster like this didn't deserve to be casually destroyed, that should have been the very last option after all others options were exhausted. The fun and joy it could have continued to bring new generations in a new home far surpasses the few thousand dollars SF got for the scrap metal. And those that don't understand this are the truly ignorant ones.

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Please. Schwarzkopf Looping Star or not, Six Flags is still a business, bottom line. "Casually destroyed" is nothing more than an assumption. Yes, the ride was technically destroyed, but I wouldn't call it casual unless you knew everything that went behind the decision to have it scrapped. If there was no potential buyer at the auction held back a few months at AstroWorld or if the bid was too low, of course as a BUSINESS, Six Flags is going to choose the best option -- which was asset liquidation. Please remember that they are still in debt and paying high interest rates and they can't just go "giving away" property (rides) just because you personally think they are "works of art."

And you know what the most hilarious part of it all is? When you said this - "And those that don't understand this are the truly ignorant ones."

EDIT: Combined two posts. *** Edited 3/18/2006 6:33:18 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***

Actually steel is not worth a whole hell of a lot.

Couple pennies a pound (Granted steel is a lot heavier).

Copper on the other hand is getting close to a couple bucks a pound. With aluminum being about a half a buck or so.

I still think they would make more money selling the ride, even if it does need refurbished.

IMHO even if a smaller park threw them 50g or whatever they would still make more than scrapping. And plus even if that park had to spend a million bucks refurbing and repainting and what not it would still be worth it.

Thats the only win win situation I see

Maybe we should start a list of parks that could have actually afforded to purchase Viper, deconstruct it, pay to ship it, reconstruct it, and then operate it as a marketable ride that actually offers something to diversify their ride line-up.

It sucks to see a coaster go like this and I understand the emotional attachment, but there just aren't that many situations where saving a coaster like this really makes sense.

Just gonna throw out some possibilities....
Mount Olympus
Kennywood
Lake Compounce
Celebration City
SFStL -- market it as "An old friend returns"
Adventureland - much better ride than our current piece of crap, Dragon
Holiday World - it would make for a great family steel coaster
Indiana Beach
Knoebels - they could really use it, but they're kind of preoccupied at the moment. ;)

It was my understanding that Looping Stars are dropping like flies because they are hard to maintain. The last thing any park needs is a maintenance nightmare that is not even spectacular enough to pay for itself. I love schwarzkopfs like a fat kid love cake (except that junk at Marine World) but sometimes its just not worth it.

There is a saying from german showmen that "Schwarzkopf builds for eternity", some of his old rides are still running with original parts. Alledgedly the lifespan of his steel coasters was planned to last 20 years. Most of his rides are now nearing their 30th year (the majority of Looping Stars was built in 1978).

I am not exactly in the know if Antons son is still providing spare parts or if Intamin is still/again doing this.

When Bobbejaanland decided to dismantle their LoopingStar they actually planned to revamp it and rebuild it at a different spot in the park. Then they discovered that the coaster, designed as a transportable ride, was nearly impossible to dismantle without brute force and without damaging the track. When a transportable ride is used as a stationary ride for such a long time, the track seems to "melt" together. I guess that many owners of Looping Stars have had the same problem when they tore down those rides after many years without moving them.

Viper would've been GREAT at Lake Winnie. I can imagine that beautiful loop positioned right by the lake. What an amazing night view that would've been!

Okay. Let's try this one. Why don't they start closing parks that they purchased in the last decade? Astroworld was purchased in the 1970s and was a piece of history. Let's face it Some of the Six Flags "Branded" parks from the last 10 years are a complete joke. If they need to make money that bad, maybe they should stop building rides like Kingda Ka that are shut down for 90% of its first season. After the problems that Cedar Point had, it makes no sense to me why they built the ride at all. I seriously doubt they got more money scrapping the Viper than they spent on Kingda Ka. Building rides like Kingda Ka is one of the main reasons they are in debt. Maybe next year they will build a 900 foot tall standing launching wooden coaster. Maybe they could even have Intamin build it.

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thrillerman1 said:
Viper would've been GREAT at Lake Winnie. I can imagine that beautiful loop positioned right by the lake. What an amazing night view that would've been!

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Amen!

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matt. said:
Maybe we should start a list of parks that could have actually afforded to purchase Viper, deconstruct it, pay to ship it, reconstruct it, and then operate it as a marketable ride that actually offers something to diversify their ride line-up.

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What is it that some of you just don't get? The auction was public, and everyone in the industry that wanted to participate was invited. You guys coming up with a list of parks that "COULD have actually afforded to purchase Viper" DOES NOT MEAN that they would have or have wanted to in the first place. You can't just say "Oh well it would have been perfect at Lake Compounce!" Guess what? What makes you think Lake Compounce wants a 30-some-year-old single loop Schwarzkopf Looping Star -- no matter how "classic" us enthusiasts like to think them as? They obviously didn't want it, because bids for Viper were so low in bids and bid pricing, Six Flags ended up scrapping it to make more money on it than what it was being bid for. It is evident no park wanted it badly enough to bid for Viper at a price higher than what it is worth in scrap metal. That should say it all.

Strange how everyone was sad that the Texas Cyclone was to be torn down, yet some of you seem to almost be cheering about Viper getting scrapped...

We do get it. The parks that didn't bid are the ones that don't get it. ;)

I was just suggesting parks that could benefit from this great steel coaster, whether or not they realized it.

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The Shy One said:
Strange how everyone was sad that the Texas Cyclone was to be torn down, yet some of you seem to almost be cheering about Viper getting scrapped...

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Please show me an example where some people seem to be almost be cheering about Viper having been scrapped.

The importance of the ride lost here is significantly different. Viper was a standard mid sized Schwarzkopf looper, a fun ride but nothing world class. Texas Cyclone was a major unique attraction. Though similar to other cyclones, but very much its own ride. It's really a shame Six Flags didn't just opt to install this ride in one of their smaller properties, it was a much better ride than some they've tried to save like Batman the Escape (which apparently was rather damaged upon disassembly).

By the way, if anyone wants to see a panorama of what the Astroworld site looks like as of this week: http://www.aynart.com/astroworldphoto.htm