Arrow looking for merger opportunity

I don't know about a LIM launched 4D. At least not with current LIM technology. Think about how heavy those trains are, and how much juice it would take. Plus the stress of the launch on the trains.

I agree though, that if anyone were to merge with them, that Premier. It would be a good combination of companies, who don't get much business alone, but have great concepts.

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Current favorite coasters:
Wooden: 1) Beast 2) Raven 3) Son of Beast 4) The Boss 5) Timber Wolf
Steel: 1) Raging Bull 2) Millennium Force 3) V2 4) Wild Thing 5) Mr. Freeze
Visit: http://www.dynamicgroove.com

If I had the money I would buy out Arrow.

I hope this is not the end of Arrow. It would hurt alot. The Maintence of CF parks would Tear down all Arrows at all CF parks Including the Magnum and Gemini.

If Premier merges I hope they wold keep the name Arrow inside it. I also hope they can fixup those Corkscrew coasters restrint systems. My dream is to see My fav ride The Orient Express get lap bars. I can imagine myself going trough the interlocking vertical loops with freedom of arm movement.

Just remember Arrow is my fav coaster manf. I just wish Ron Toomer designed rides still. I also wonder if he even designed the Tenn. Tornado.

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Chris Knight
All Your Base are belong to us
That's not roughness that intensity *** This post was edited by Sawblade5 on 5/9/2002. ***

If you didn't understand my reference earlier, HUSS bought a portion of Arrow in the early 80's while they were suffering from similar financial difficulties.

This is nothing to worry about, everyone.
*** This post was edited by john peck on 5/9/2002. ***

Sawblade5 said: "I hope this is not the end of Arrow. It would hurt alot. The Maintence of CF parks would Tear down all Arrows at all CF parks Including the Magnum and Gemini. "

No, that would never happen! Especially with Magnum or Gemini. CF would go wherever it needed to to get parts manufactured!

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- Peabody

Vekoma could also become the spare parts distributor... since their sitdown trains and the Arrow ones have many parts that are the same (Goudurix, which has Vekoma trains has Arrow wheels on it!). So, Vekoma could recuperate a portion of the spare parts business from Arrow.

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Vekoma could also become the spare parts distributor... since their sitdown trains and the Arrow ones have many parts that are the same (Goudurix, which has Vekoma trains has Arrow wheels on it!).

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Heh. That reminds me of the last few replies of this thread.

Why did they have to re-weld parts of X, and what did they have to change on the trains?

*** This post was edited by Raptor Pilot on 5/9/2002. ***

The main reason Arrow declared bankruptcy was the same reason Vekoma declared bankruptcy: Six Flags withheld payment to both manufacturers because of delays in opening on-site prototype rides.

The out-of-pocket costs involved in design, fabrication, transportation, construction, and testing of X & the Vu's ran deeper than the resources of the aforementioned companies (bonds and notes became immediately payable to creditors, and they didn't have the money to pay them, because they were shorted money).

My thought is, if you (SF) want to build a prototype ride, then you pay when payment is due. You don't hold out money until you are happy with the result. I didn't see Paramount bankrupt Vekoma when Stealth went over a year late.

Six Flags bankrupted Vekoma. And pushed Arrow into bankruptcy.

Which brings us to the response I posted earlier in this thread lol.... long live six flags...and Arrow...the last of the few great american amusement companies.
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Remember The Future?

The dude, this has nothing to do with being happy with the results. This has everything to do with missing the majority of the operating season with Deja Vu, and X. If Vekoma and Arrow promised a product on time, they both screwed up really badly. Most amusement parks are seasonal operations. If you miss a good portion of that season, you're losing money everyday the ride isn't open. Would you pay money for a brand new car that needs a lot of tweaking before it ever works correctly? Of course you wouldn't.
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The word "definitely" is definitely the most misspelled word on the buzz.

Agreed. However, you need to look at one word in my post to understand this situation, as opposed to say, buying a new car: prototype.

Six Flags has a penchant for building prototypes. One thing implicit in a prototype is that it has never been done before. Anywhere. Not even on a testing ground. Sure, engineering mockups exist, but I don't think either of these ride designs had a full scale testing model.

When you (SF) buys a prototype (or 4), you have taken the risk that the ride may not work properly until all unknowns are worked out. You build that risk into your expectation, and everything that derives from it. SF didn't -- they had advertisements for all 6 rides they didn't pay for (X,3 DV, 2 FD) before testing was underway.

Six Flags didn't build a contract for either of these rides whereby they were permitted to hold money, almost in an escrow situation, until the ride was open to their satisfaction. They actively decided to not pay Arrow & Vekoma. I'd even hazard a guess that by not paying Arrow, X was delayed longer than it should have been. It's pretty expensive to get that kind of machinery up & running, especially when your sole current client refuses to pay you anything for work completed. I know from talking with Alan the extent of the mod's done to X's carriage late last year. Some expensive stuff to be sure.

My point in posting this was that Six Flags operates unlike a normal customer. They have much more clout -- not unlike a bully. Basically, if they don't buy from you, then you're SOL. But, if they don't pay you, you're SOL and Bankrupt.

Arrow was on thin ice (financially) before Gary Story signed the contract for X. You'd bet your last dollar that a company with no customers, and a short term history of very sparse small projects, entered a contract that was not 100% contingent upon a schedule. Therein lies the problem...

Arrow was precariously close to bankruptcy pre-X, but SF pushed them into it. Vekoma, on the other hand, built 5 coasters in 2001 that they were not paid for. That's why they went bankrupt.

FWIW, I think Lady Karma will come back and bite SF's butt. You don't leverage that much long term debt in such a volatile industry and stick around for the long haul.